President Trump: Making America Great Again...

[BlueK]

I just read it.

It's puzzling to me how people use email and text messaging at this level as though no one will ever see what is texted or emailed. Why not an end-to-end encrypted app? I suppose if you feel like you're above the law, you feel secure in doing whatever you want.

Do we have the will to put him in prison? How much would that escalate the tensions in our polarized country?

Anything will escalate tensions. Just follow the law is the best option.

[Bo Diddley]

Anything will escalate tensions. Just follow the law is the best option.

That's easy to say, but the letter of the law would indict many government officials on boths sides of the aisle wrt classified documents. Trump obviously ratcheted up the stupid and actionable crimes by quite a bit.

My question is how much would tensions be escalated?

[Non Sequitur]

I just read it.

It's puzzling to me how people use email and text messaging at this level as though no one will ever see what is texted or emailed. Why not an end-to-end encrypted app? I suppose if you feel like you're above the law, you feel secure in doing whatever you want.

Do we have the will to put him in prison? How much would that escalate the tensions in our polarized country?

Putting him in prison would not escalate tensions nearly as much as allowing him to become President again. If Trump were elected President you would see insurrection that would make Jan 6 look like a playground spat. Even if Trump is convicted before the 2024 election, it will be appealed, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies Trump from continuing his campaign. If he becomes President before this is all resolved, then it will all go away, because he will own the DOJ. As glad as I am that there is an iron-clad case against Trump, we're a long ways from hearing the fat lady sing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Putting him in prison would not escalate tensions nearly as much as allowing him to become President again. If Trump were elected President you would see insurrection that would make Jan 6 look like a playground spat. Even if Trump is convicted before the 2024 election, it will be appealed, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies Trump from continuing his campaign. If he becomes President before this is all resolved, then it will all go away, because he will own the DOJ. As glad as I am that there is an iron-clad case against Trump, we're a long ways from hearing the fat lady sing.

Agreed. Can you imagine how scorched earth he would be if he ever got back in office? It would be the apocalypse.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Putting him in prison would not escalate tensions nearly as much as allowing him to become President again. If Trump were elected President you would see insurrection that would make Jan 6 look like a playground spat. Even if Trump is convicted before the 2024 election, it will be appealed, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies Trump from continuing his campaign. If he becomes President before this is all resolved, then it will all go away, because he will own the DOJ. As glad as I am that there is an iron-clad case against Trump, we're a long ways from hearing the fat lady sing.

If Trump had just handed everything over when asked we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It is the willful defiance of the DOJ orders, the lying, and the conspiracy that are the issue.

EDIT: Whoops, this was supposed to be in response to BD's "everybody else does it" post. No, everyone does not do this.

[Maximus]

Agreed. Can you imagine how scorched earth he would be if he ever got back in office? It would be the apocalypse.

mcconnell had the dagger in his hands. smh.

[Non Sequitur]

If Trump had just handed everything over when asked we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It is the willful defiance of the DOJ orders, the lying, and the conspiracy that are the issue.

The irony is that hubris might be the thing that ultimately brings him down, but it's also the thing that his base loves about him.

[Pelado]

That's easy to say, but the letter of the law would indict many government officials on boths sides of the aisle wrt classified documents. Trump obviously ratcheted up the stupid and actionable crimes by quite a bit.

My question is how much would tensions be escalated?

The difference might be that most other government officials aren't stupid enough to allow for there to be overwhelming evidence of intentional disregard of the law.

[BlueK]

That's easy to say, but the letter of the law would indict many government officials on boths sides of the aisle wrt classified documents. Trump obviously ratcheted up the stupid and actionable crimes by quite a bit.

My question is how much would tensions be escalated?

That isn't exactly true, as intent is part of the law. It's not provable that the others even knew they had such materials, therefore not prosecutable. And when they realized it they self reported and returned them. Trump had over a year to return what he was asked to but instead tried to hide stuff and avoid. The materials he did return are not part of the indictment.

Also I think the idea of doing nothing and thus setting the precedent that it's ok for former presidents to steal national security secrets is far more horrifying then the thought of angering Trump supporters. And before Trump, what the evidence says that he did would have been horrifying to all Americans had any president of any party done it.

[falafel]

Putting him in prison would not escalate tensions nearly as much as allowing him to become President again. If Trump were elected President you would see insurrection that would make Jan 6 look like a playground spat. Even if Trump is convicted before the 2024 election, it will be appealed, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies Trump from continuing his campaign. If he becomes President before this is all resolved, then it will all go away, because he will own the DOJ. As glad as I am that there is an iron-clad case against Trump, we're a long ways from hearing the fat lady sing.

And maybe he'd just pardon himself.

[PaloAltoCougar]

That isn't exactly true, as intent is part of the law. It's not provable that the others even knew they had such materials, therefore not prosecutable. And when they realized it they self reported and returned them. Trump had over a year to return what he was asked to but instead tried to hide stuff and avoid. The materials he did return are not part of the indictment.

That's a key distinction that Trump supporters blithely overlook. So far as I am aware, in every instance when someone not named Trump is discovered to have taken classified materials, upon discovery they immediately turn things over to the feds, offer a mea culpa, and move on. Not Trump. Instead, he follows his life-long playbook of denial and pushback, never, ever admitting guilt. That approach is now going to cost him, bigly.

[Bo Diddley]

If Trump had just handed everything over when asked we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It is the willful defiance of the DOJ orders, the lying, and the conspiracy that are the issue.

EDIT: Whoops, this was supposed to be in response to BD's "everybody else does it" post. No, everyone does not do this.

I knew I was too subtle here, so let me try to better explain what I meant.

I'm not talking about the lying or conspiracy. I'm not even talking about his willful disregard for protecting classified information. What I'm saying is that there is a general disregard for treating classified information properly by government officials up the chain. And while Trump is exponentially worse in this regard than everyone else, I'm somewhat concerned the average citizen will note the difference.

[Bo Diddley]

Putting him in prison would not escalate tensions nearly as much as allowing him to become President again. If Trump were elected President you would see insurrection that would make Jan 6 look like a playground spat. Even if Trump is convicted before the 2024 election, it will be appealed, so I'm not sure if that disqualifies Trump from continuing his campaign. If he becomes President before this is all resolved, then it will all go away, because he will own the DOJ. As glad as I am that there is an iron-clad case against Trump, we're a long ways from hearing the fat lady sing.

Totally agree here. But I really don't think Trump is electable. I'm also really hoping no one who would undermine the rule of law is elected.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I knew I was too subtle here, so let me try to better explain what I meant.

I'm not talking about the lying or conspiracy. I'm not even talking about his willful disregard for protecting classified information. What I'm saying is that there is a general disregard for treating classified information properly by government officials up the chain. And while Trump is exponentially worse in this regard than everyone else, I'm somewhat concerned the average citizen will note the difference.

It's not an issue of understanding the difference. Trump could literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and his supporters would stand by him. It is 100% a cult.

[Bo Diddley]

It's not an issue of understanding the difference. Trump could literally shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and his supporters would stand by him. It is 100% a cult.

That may be, but they only make up about 1/4 of the US.