Ukraine - somebody explain to me

[Bo Diddley]

An AP article that goes into detail how Russia is smuggling stolen Ukrainian grain.

But an investigation by The Associated Press and the PBS series “Frontline” has found the Laodicea, owned by Syria, is part of a sophisticated Russian-run smuggling operation that has used falsified manifests and seaborne subterfuge to steal Ukrainian grain worth at least $530 million — cash that has helped feed President Vladimir Putin’s war machine.

[wuapinmon]

Kadyrov is sending his sons to fight, ages 14, 15, and 16, per his verified Telegram channel. TASS is reporting on it like it's great news instead of proof that things are going poorly and that Kadyrov is a wannabe Kaiser Soze. https://t.me/RKadyrov_95/2921

[wuapinmon]

FYI, if you download the "Unigram" Telegram client, it includes the translation option on PC that Telegram's PC app lacks.

[BigFatMeanie]

Is it entirely naive to wonder why someone didnt take out putin. I guess he just has loyal people around him but, it seems those high up would see they are going to lose a generation and stop it.

yea I guess naive. oh well

If you haven't already, check out the Russian state TV in the tweet MBN linked below. That is why someone didn't take out Putin - because it's not just Putin. There are many Russian leaders that have constructed a "righteous cause" for themselves and drink the kool-aid about the superiority of Russian state/military/culture/religion/values/ethnicity. And there is a huge chunk of Russian society, not just their leaders, that drink the same kool-aid.

These people are deluded. They don't operate in reality.

He is calling for a full restructuring of Russian society and economy to support the war in Ukraine. That isn't even possible. Dumb dumbs, all of them.

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[wuapinmon]

Musk could become persona non grata if he keeps up his twitter stuff. This is real:

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[Jeff Lebowski]

Musk could become persona non grata if he keeps up his twitter stuff. This is real:

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For a smart guy he does some incredibly stupid things sometimes.

[wuapinmon]

For reference:

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[wuapinmon]

For a smart guy he does some incredibly stupid things sometimes.

Kinzinger has moved into the zero-fucks-given phase of political office:

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[Jeff Lebowski]

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[wuapinmon]

There are some absolutely brutal videos out today. One shows a birds-eye view of a Russian soldier being fellated by another. The Ukrainian operator then drops a grenade right beside them, probably killing them both. Another has Ukrainian troops, still breathing heavily from running, approaching a Russian vehicle. One guy is minutes from death on the ground, pale as can be, responding "Yes, sergeant" to the questions asked of him, his crewmates are dead, one guy's legs are not attached, his guts are in a crater, and his chest and head are sitting there in a death stare at the whole scene. The dude that's still alive has a civilian coat on over his gear.

I hate war.

[wuapinmon]

If you haven't already, check out the Russian state TV in the tweet MBN linked below. That is why someone didn't take out Putin - because it's not just Putin. There are many Russian leaders that have constructed a "righteous cause" for themselves and drink the kool-aid about the superiority of Russian state/military/culture/religion/values/ethnicity. And there is a huge chunk of Russian society, not just their leaders, that drink the same kool-aid.

Didn't you know that NATO is the Fourth Reich? (Note: This is filthy Ruzzian propaganda at its worst) https://www.rt.com/russia/563981-nat...m_campaign=RSS

[Eddie]

I find myself both pleased at the progress Ukraine is making, and at a loss at to what it will take to end this thing in light of the Russian media comments in the video above.

Ukraine outnumbers Russia by 3-5X? Russians are inflicting 7-10X the casualties that the Ukrainians are? This is the continuation of a war that began 30 years ago - all of the equipment promised by the "west" was already in country before it was promised? Russia is fighting for it's survival, so they need to regroup and restructure EVERYTHING (manufacturing, military leadership, society - essentially) and then strike out again?

So what will it take for Russia to give up on this? They're selling all kinds of propaganda as to how successful they've been in spite of the world being against them. And with the belief that Russia is fighting for their lives, if feels like nothing short of Ukraine taking back every inch of territory and then parking their troops on the border will convince them that Ukraine just wants Russia out of Ukraine. Unless there are more nefarious goals that I'm unaware of.

I understand where people are coming from when they compare the US and allies welcoming Ukraine into relationships with the west - especially NATO - is similar to Russia planting missiles in Cuba. It isn't surprising to me that they don't love it. That they attacked is surprising.

But what's worrisome, to me at least, is that with the belief that they are fighting for their very lives being pushed via media (and assuming that the Russian public is buying it, on at least some level) at what point does using nukes become acceptable to the Russian public and then the military as a last resort? If they think they're all going to die, then mutual destruction might be preferred to "just us" being destroyed in their minds.

[Goatnapper'96]

I find myself both pleased at the progress Ukraine is making, and at a loss at to what it will take to end this thing in light of the Russian media comments in the video above.

Ukraine outnumbers Russia by 3-5X? Russians are inflicting 7-10X the casualties that the Ukrainians are? This is the continuation of a war that began 30 years ago - all of the equipment promised by the "west" was already in country before it was promised? Russia is fighting for it's survival, so they need to regroup and restructure EVERYTHING (manufacturing, military leadership, society - essentially) and then strike out again?

So what will it take for Russia to give up on this? They're selling all kinds of propaganda as to how successful they've been in spite of the world being against them. And with the belief that Russia is fighting for their lives, if feels like nothing short of Ukraine taking back every inch of territory and then parking their troops on the border will convince them that Ukraine just wants Russia out of Ukraine. Unless there are more nefarious goals that I'm unaware of.

I understand where people are coming from when they compare the US and allies welcoming Ukraine into relationships with the west - especially NATO - is similar to Russia planting missiles in Cuba. It isn't surprising to me that they don't love it. That they attacked is surprising.

But what's worrisome, to me at least, is that with the belief that they are fighting for their very lives being pushed via media (and assuming that the Russian public is buying it, on at least some level) at what point does using nukes become acceptable to the Russian public and then the military as a last resort? If they think they're all going to die, then mutual destruction might be preferred to "just us" being destroyed in their minds.

I am not convinced there is ubiquitous agreement amongst the Russian people with their politico talking head elites. Putin's resistance to full moblilization/declaring war leads me to conclude this. Time will tell if the propaganda can lead the masses to believe Ukraine poses an existential threat to Russia but I think it is a big jump for the Russian people to get there.

I tend to think they will overthrow Putin if he asks Russia to sacrifice to that extent. They can't nuke if they want to win the war-not just because of MAD but because their poorly deployed and equipped Army cannot fight in that type of environment. I don't think the regime cares about sending so many soldiers to their slaughter but they do care about winning. I really think the only way this ends is when Putin is thrown out of power. It gives Russian pride an offramp by making Putin the sole villain.

[Eddie]

I am not convinced there is ubiquitous agreement amongst the Russian people with their politico talking head elites. Putin's resistance to full moblilization/declaring war leads me to conclude this. Time will tell if the propaganda can lead the masses to believe Ukraine poses an existential threat to Russia but I think it is a big jump for the Russian people to get there.

I tend to think they will overthrow Putin if he asks Russia to sacrifice to that extent. They can't nuke if they want to win the war-not just because of MAD but because their poorly deployed and equipped Army cannot fight in that type of environment. I don't think the regime cares about sending so many soldiers to their slaughter but they do care about winning. I really think the only way this ends is when Putin is thrown out of power. It gives Russian pride an offramp by making Putin the sole villain.

Yeah - I've had similar thoughts. Putin has pressed the importance of this conflict way too much to back down now. Maybe (MAYBE) if he threw some other military and intelligence officials under the bus as having mislead him as to what was going on - convincing him they needed act as a country. But even then, he'd have to admit to not knowing stuff and trusting the wrong people. I think the only way this ends is as you say - with Putin taking the blame.

I'm probably giving too much credibility to various videos of random Russians coming out talking about needing to subdue the Ukrainian Nazis. Chances are pretty high that many are saying what they need to say to stay in good terms with the government.

[wuapinmon]

Most eastern Europeans (besides Hungarians) on Telegram think that Russia will wind up fragmented and demilitarized. I could see the "Federation" collapsing, but demilitarization seems far-fetched to me.