Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[Topper]

Hasn't there been a shortage of children to adopt for several years now?

Are you aware of recent data showing that? My understanding is that there is often a shortage of infant white children, but not for the other groups. My first experience with a gay couple adoption involved a couple who wanted to adopted a child with Down's Syndrome and gave that child the best life one could imagine.

[old_gregg]

It is my strong opinion that a child raised by a loving father and mother will be happier than a child raised by an equally loving gay couple.

that is a silly opinion with no basis in reality

[cowboy]

that is a silly opinion with no basis in reality

One who doesn't agree with any opinion can call it silly if they choose to be narrow minded. By definition, an opinion is only a belief, and not necessarily fact. While my opinion in fact does have a basis in reality, I will follow the advice credited to Mark Twain and not argue with you, lest I be brought to your level and beaten with experience.

[old_gregg]

One who doesn't agree with any opinion can call it silly if they choose to be narrow minded.

love this move. "your failure to accept my bigotry is narrow minded and an infringement of my religious liberty." it is a silly opinion that is demonstrably, empirically wrong.

[Commando]

love this move. "your failure to accept my bigotry is narrow minded and an infringement of my religious liberty." it is a silly opinion that is demonstrably, empirically wrong.

Is it?

[Walter Sobchak]

It is my strong opinion that a child raised by a loving father and mother will be happier than a child raised by an equally loving gay couple.

Based on your experience in Wyoming? I don't doubt that.

[cowboy]

love this move. "your failure to accept my bigotry is narrow minded and an infringement of my religious liberty." it is a silly opinion that is demonstrably, empirically wrong.

To your credit, you very quickly proved yourself to be in the category to which Twain referred.

[cowboy]

Based on your experience in Wyoming?

No.

[Northwestcoug]

This is where the gay rights movement loses me. I agree with you that parenting works better with two parents, but I believe it works best with a father and a mother who are actively involved in a child's life. Just because we want children doesn't mean we should automatically be entitled to have them. Granted, there are many hetero couples who fall into this category, but let's compare apples to apples. It is my strong opinion that a child raised by a loving father and mother will be happier than a child raised by an equally loving gay couple.

We spend a lot of time discussing who deserves to be a parent with little regard to what the child deserves. Every child deserves to be loved and have their physical needs met. A gay couple can do that as well as a straight couple, and frankly, there are too many children who are not loved and properly cared for. But children also deserve a mother and a father. This isn't something that can be legislated or regulated, but it is certainly something that I believe our society should embrace.

I won't argue with your opinion, because in a perfect world I would agree that some couples should not be 'automatically entitled to have' children'. But as it stands very bad heterosexual couples can and do procreate. And hetero-couples who won't make good parents are allowed to adopt or become foster parents. So if we don't make judgement decisions on those people (who in reality far outnumber gay couples who want children), why should society make a judgement call on gay couples, based solely on their sexuality? Because it should be painfully obvious by now that heterosexuality does not automatically give a 'leg up' on parenting ability.

[TripletDaddy]

One who doesn't agree with any opinion can call it silly if they choose to be narrow minded. By definition, an opinion is only a belief, and not necessarily fact. While my opinion in fact does have a basis in reality, I will follow the advice credited to Mark Twain and not argue with you, lest I be brought to your level and beaten with experience.

im happy to give you your opinion. can you help me understand it? you seemed to strategically use the word "strong" to emphasize the nature of your opinion so I would assume you have some sort of additional insight into the issue beyond personal feelings.

[TripletDaddy]

I won't argue with your opinion, because in a perfect world I would agree that some couples should not be 'automatically entitled to have' children'. But as it stands very bad heterosexual couples can and do procreate. And hetero-couples who won't make good parents are allowed to adopt or become foster parents. So if we don't make judgement decisions on those people (who in reality far outnumber gay couples who want children), why should society make a judgement call on gay couples, based solely on their sexuality? Because it should be painfully obvious by now that heterosexuality does not automatically give a 'leg up' on parenting ability.

couples? there are myriad single parent situations, as well. what do we do about those kids? also, this notion that kids "deserve" something, is it based in anything other than idealism? Why do kids "deserve" to be born into two parent households? in fact I'm not even sure I know what that means from a practical standpoint. Humans, regardless of age, ideally deserve a lot of wonderful things but that isn't really how life has ever worked.

[Northwestcoug]

couples? there are myriad single parent situations, as well. what do we do about those kids? also, this notion that kids "deserve" something, is it based in anything other than idealism? Why do kids "deserve" to be born into two parent households? in fact I'm not even sure I know what that means from a practical standpoint. Humans, regardless of age, ideally deserve a lot of wonderful things but that isn't really how life has ever worked.

I agree. I mentioned couples to try to stick with Cowboy's 'apples to apples' reference as much as possible.

[cowboy]

I won't argue with your opinion, because in a perfect world I would agree that some couples should not be 'automatically entitled to have' children'. But as it stands very bad heterosexual couples can and do procreate. And hetero-couples who won't make good parents are allowed to adopt or become foster parents. So if we don't make judgement decisions on those people (who in reality far outnumber gay couples who want children), why should society make a judgement call on gay couples, based solely on their sexuality? Because it should be painfully obvious by now that heterosexuality does not automatically give a 'leg up' on parenting ability.

I agree with you, but I think that, while being a hetero couple may not have an automatic parenting ability advantage, with all other things being equal I believe that a child raised by a hetero couple will be happier. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that a child wants both a mother and a father as they grow up. I know I did.

[Topper]

I agree with you, but I think that, while being a hetero couple may not have an automatic parenting ability advantage, with all other things being equal I believe that a child raised by a hetero couple will be happier. I don't think it's a stretch to imagine that a child wants both a mother and a father as they grow up. I know I did.

I don't know how you measure happiness but parenting ability is likely to contribute to the child's happiness. The only advantage might be social acceptability, but those days of two heteor-parent families being the primary acceptable configuration are gone in many parts of the country.

[Walter Sobchak]

im happy to give you your opinion. can you help me understand it? you seemed to strategically use the word "strong" to emphasize the nature of your opinion so I would assume you have some sort of additional insight into the issue beyond personal feelings.

Mark Twain sez he doesn't have to help you understand anything.