Same-sex marriage coming to Utah

[outlier]

For the first time in years, that article made me feel good about a male-only priesthood.

Article reminded me of:

"You know the difference between Catholics and Mormons? Catholics say the pope is infallible and none of them believe it. Mormons say the prophet is fallible and none of them believe it."

[Eddie]

So if you have a kid who turns out to be gay would you tell him/her that homo sex is sinful and he/she should stay a virgin forever, never have spouse or kids?

So - not to point out the obvious. But you do know that homo sex doesn't lead to kids, right?

I assume that the "Cardiac" in your name refers to being a heart doctor. But I figured they had some general medical studies that all doctors have to go through that would include some anatomical/reproductive stuff.

[jay santos]

gaymarriagebaby.JPG

Is this the bizarro McNaughton?

[hostile]

So - not to point out the obvious. But you do know that homo sex doesn't lead to kids, right?

I assume that the "Cardiac" in your name refers to being a heart doctor. But I figured they had some general medical studies that all doctors have to go through that would include some anatomical/reproductive stuff.

Well, there is adoption or surrogate as an option.

I'm only an orthopedic doctor so take that for what its worth.

[CardiacCoug]

So - not to point out the obvious. But you do know that homo sex doesn't lead to kids, right?

I assume that the "Cardiac" in your name refers to being a heart doctor. But I figured they had some general medical studies that all doctors have to go through that would include some anatomical/reproductive stuff.

Ha! You got me.

I guess a gay, celibate person could adopt or bear a child as a single parent (surrogate mom for a gay guy or sperm donor for a gay gal) but parenting works better with two parents I think -- so that's where I was going with that. Believe it or not, most gay couples want kids, despite having the wrong parts to conceive kids like the rest of us.

It's easy to say gay sex is a sin but when it comes down to asking people never to have a spouse and kids for purely abstract theological reasons I think that's a lot to ask. I wouldn't give up my wife and kids for the sake of some unprovable and illogical religious theory. Why would I ask somebody else to do that?

[imanihonjin]

[ATTACH]6456[/ATTACH]

Is this the bizarro McNaughton?

Who new that Elder Christofferson had such huge hands?

[TripletDaddy]

Who new that Elder Christofferson had such huge hands?

Also Bell's palsy.

[imanihonjin]

Also Bell's palsy.

Does Bednar also suffer from this?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Does Bednar also suffer from this?

Nope. Stroke victim.

[imanihonjin]

Nope. Stroke victim.

After a second look, I don't know. Elder Holland may be relieving himself in this picture. Elder Bednar may be just reacting to the Holland SBD. This may also explain the sour faced Elder Oaks.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

Who new that Elder Christofferson had such huge hands?

Pretty sure that's Gary Busey.

[Eddie]

Well, there is adoption or surrogate as an option.

I'm only an orthopedic doctor so take that for what its worth.

Well, yes. Of course. But I was just commenting on the homo sex tie in. Adoption, or even surrogacy, doesn't require sex. (I'm starting to imagine the surrogate selection process if it did. "Honey - I think SHE should carry our child!!! "

Ha! You got me.

I guess a gay, celibate person could adopt or bear a child as a single parent (surrogate mom for a gay guy or sperm donor for a gay gal) but parenting works better with two parents I think -- so that's where I was going with that. Believe it or not, most gay couples want kids, despite having the wrong parts to conceive kids like the rest of us.

It's easy to say gay sex is a sin but when it comes down to asking people never to have a spouse and kids for purely abstract theological reasons I think that's a lot to ask. I wouldn't give up my wife and kids for the sake of some unprovable and illogical religious theory. Why would I ask somebody else to do that?

I was just hassling you on the homo-sex-is-a-sin-and-by-asking-homos-to-remain-virgins-you-are-asking-them-to-go-without-children angle.

I know some of the gay couples who have adopted. And I spoke with many more before the legalization of gay marriage who wanted to but were unable due to Utah's laws. So yes - I get it.

I think that it is a very difficult and very personal situation for someone to find themselves in. At the same time LDS and gay. And I like to think that I would support my child in whatever their decision. Whether that was ongoing abstinence or seeking a long-term enduring relationship like the one I enjoy with my wife.

The interesting thing in your comment to me, is that the church wouldn't ask you to give up your wife or children. Even if they were inactive non-believers who never intended to go to the temple and you were a TBM. Sure - they would suggest that you date active LDS folks with your same temple goals. But once you were married - they wouldn't tell you that your spouse being inactive or non-LDS is grounds to end the relationship.

I can't imagine asking someone to remain alone for their entire life. I know people who have - I have an aunt and a great aunt who never married. But I can't imagine intending that kind of life as your plan.

[cowboy]

Ha! You got me.

I guess a gay, celibate person could adopt or bear a child as a single parent (surrogate mom for a gay guy or sperm donor for a gay gal) but parenting works better with two parents I think -- so that's where I was going with that. Believe it or not, most gay couples want kids, despite having the wrong parts to conceive kids like the rest of us.

It's easy to say gay sex is a sin but when it comes down to asking people never to have a spouse and kids for purely abstract theological reasons I think that's a lot to ask. I wouldn't give up my wife and kids for the sake of some unprovable and illogical religious theory. Why would I ask somebody else to do that?

This is where the gay rights movement loses me. I agree with you that parenting works better with two parents, but I believe it works best with a father and a mother who are actively involved in a child's life. Just because we want children doesn't mean we should automatically be entitled to have them. Granted, there are many hetero couples who fall into this category, but let's compare apples to apples. It is my strong opinion that a child raised by a loving father and mother will be happier than a child raised by an equally loving gay couple.

We spend a lot of time discussing who deserves to be a parent with little regard to what the child deserves. Every child deserves to be loved and have their physical needs met. A gay couple can do that as well as a straight couple, and frankly, there are too many children who are not loved and properly cared for. But children also deserve a mother and a father. This isn't something that can be legislated or regulated, but it is certainly something that I believe our society should embrace.

[Topper]

This is where the gay rights movement loses me. I agree with you that parenting works better with two parents, but I believe it works best with a father and a mother who are actively involved in a child's life. Just because we want children doesn't mean we should automatically be entitled to have them. Granted, there are many hetero couples who fall into this category, but let's compare apples to apples. It is my strong opinion that a child raised by a loving father and mother will be happier than a child raised by an equally loving gay couple.

We spend a lot of time discussing who deserves to be a parent with little regard to what the child deserves. Every child deserves to be loved and have their physical needs met. A gay couple can do that as well as a straight couple, and frankly, there are too many children who are not loved and properly cared for. But children also deserve a mother and a father. This isn't something that can be legislated or regulated, but it is certainly something that I believe our society should embrace.

But the data doesn't support your belief. It seems natural to believe a father and a mother make for a better parenting situation, but in terms of measurable metrics, most gay couples do better than the large national average for straight couples. It may be that for gay couples adopting that they are put to a higher standard and thus perform better than the average parents who do not have to work as hard to become parents, thus the data may evaluate all categories of straight parents but only elite gay parents. Until all children who need adoption are adopted, the discussion of preferences is academic.

[All-American]

But the data doesn't support your belief. It seems natural to believe a father and a mother make for a better parenting situation, but in terms of measurable metrics, most gay couples do better than the large national average for straight couples. It may be that for gay couples adopting that they are put to a higher standard and thus perform better than the average parents who do not have to work as hard to become parents, thus the data may evaluate all categories of straight parents but only elite gay parents. Until all children who need adoption are adopted, the discussion of preferences is academic.

Hasn't there been a shortage of children to adopt for several years now?