The 2016 Presidential Election Trainwreck

[BlueK]

The toll roads aren't a success because people don't want to pay tolls? I think the anti-toll sentiment is summed up by this one sentence in the article:



That sounds like something Bernie Sanders would say. Having grown up in the midwest, I'm definitely not in love with toll roads. But when budgets at every level of government are in trouble, toll roads or P3 projects are sometimes the only way to get much-needed infrastructure built or repaired. Obviously the states can decide how much tolling they want through democratic processes, but the public needs to be educated that the gas tax does not fully pay for infrastructure and anyone who thinks they are paying their fair share for roads by paying gas tax is not correct. They are being heavily subsidized. Absent a Vehicle Miles Traveled toll, which will be a very hard sell in America, toll roads are the fairest way to make actual users bear the costs of the roads they are using.

they're not a success because they collect tax money from the state PLUS toll revenue.

Also, they don't have toll booths anymore. They read your license plate and are supposed to send you a bill. The problem is that if you move they don't bother to update their records and keep sending bills to the original address they had on file even if you update your registration with the new address. They never tell you even on their own freaking website that they almost never update their records, so most residents have no idea the toll authority doesn't have their current information. But then maybe once a year they do update and send you a bill. The problem is by then they don't just bill you for what you owe. They bill you that amount PLUS hundreds of dollars in late fees. Then it's hard to get them on the phone to talk to you to resolve the issue. When you can finally speak with someone then they'll finally usually remove or reduce the extra fees, but it takes a lot of work to get there.

[Uncle Ted]

Hey, wait a minute. CMBF was positive that you don't support privatization of roads. Ha.

I hate the toll roads in Texas. And they have not been an unqualified success, as you imply. There has been a huge backlash. So much so that even the Republican party is now against them, and there is a movement not only to stop building them, but to convert the existing ones to public-access roads.

http://www.texastribune.org/tribpedi...oads-in-texas/

http://www.texastribune.org/2015/03/...ng-opposition/

There is not a lot of difference between the republican party and the democratic party these days.

Toll roads are wonderful, BTW. They get build fast, on time and on budget. They are well maintained.

Don't like toll roads. Don't drive on them... (i.e., Drive on the pot hole infested government built roads instead.)

[BlueK]

Wasn't Leavitt also a cabinet member at one point? Secretary for Health and Human Services? Why would they list him as a "Romney adviser" instead of one of those other positions that seem more relevant.

Probably because he was a Romney advisor more recently I guess. Good point though. They did mention he was once a governor though.

[BlueK]

There is not a lot of difference between the republican party and the democratic party these days.

Toll roads are wonderful, BTW. They get build fast, on time and on budget. They are well maintained.

Don't like toll roads. Don't drive on them... (i.e., Drive on the pot hole infested government built roads instead.)

In texas they are still government roads. They get lots of tax money. That's my problem with them. Cut them off the dole or stop charging us to use them.

[Uncle Ted]

Also, they don't have toll booths anymore. They read your license plate and are supposed to send you a bill. The problem is that if you move they don't bother to update their records and keep sending bills to the original address they had on file even if you update your registration with the new address. They never tell you even on their own freaking website that they almost never update their records, so most residents have no idea the toll authority doesn't have their current information. But then maybe once a year they do update and send you a bill. The problem is by then they don't just bill you for what you owe. They bill you that amount PLUS hundreds of dollars in late fees. Then it's hard to get them on the phone to talk to you to resolve the issue. When you can finally speak with someone then they'll finally usually remove or reduce the extra fees, but it takes a lot of work to get there.

Embrace 21st century technology and get a toll tag, man.

Personally I think the government should also stop taxing gas and go to an use tax on roads. All those damn Tesla owners are using the roads for free. It is time to put an end to that loophole!

[BlueK]

Embrace 21st century technology and get a toll tag, man.

Personally I think the government should also stop taxing gas and go to an use tax on roads. All those damn Tesla owners are using the roads for free. It is time to put an end to that loophole!

I have one now. This was from a couple of years ago before I ever used the toll roads. It's not the concept of a private or a toll road that bothers me. It's the way they administer it and the corporate welfare they get from the state.

[Uncle Ted]

In texas they are still government roads. They get lots of tax money. That's my problem with them. Cut them off the dole or stop charging us to use them.

The government still owns the land and the roads. They are leased to NTTA, etc.

Claim: We shouldn't give control of our roads to foreign companies.
Reality: We drive foreign cars filled with imported gasoline. We wear foreign-made clothes. And we use foreign computers and televisions. These toll road companies are building and operating immovable infrastructure in Texas. They can’t take the roads back to Spain or Australia. They are spending money in Texas and creating jobs in Texas.


Claim: Texas shouldn't sign partnership agreements that "give away" or lease critical infrastructure for 50 or more years.
Reality: The government owns the toll roads. Period. The lease agreements can be as long, or short, as the state and taxpayers want. In Australia, many toll agreements last 35 years. The tradeoff for shorter agreements is less money upfront for the state. For example, in an analysis of a possible long-term lease of the Illinois Tollway System, Credit Suisse ran identical scenarios, changing only the length of the lease. A 25-year lease was worth $1.6 to $2.2 billion. A 75-year lease was worth significantly more, ranging from $5.8 to $8.4 billion.

http://reason.org/news/show/setting-...rd-straight-on

I think the Jury is still on that SH-121 project, however.

[Uncle Ted]

I have one now. This was from a couple of years ago before I ever used the toll roads. It's not the concept of a private or a toll road that bothers me. It's the way they administer it and the corporate welfare they get from the state.

Yeah, the government likes to get their fingers in everything. Of course, sometimes it takes a little help from the government to line up the financing and land but then they should get out of the way.

[frank ryan]

Yeah, the government likes to get their fingers in everything. Of course, sometimes it takes a little help from the government to line up the financing and land but then they should get out of the way.

Exactly why Halliburton is so efficient when it comes to the military. Privatized prisons are amazing too.

[Paperback Writer]

I think the Jury is still on that SH-121 project, however.

Never thought I would jump to the defense of SH-121. For a time, I refused to drive it after it was converted to a toll road. Perhaps I longed for the days when it was a 2-lane road with roadside brothels and little traffic. But taking LBJ/635 to the airport or Ft. Worth was horrific. Finally, I gave in and started driving it and it's worth the toll. I'd feel differently if I had to drive 121 everyday rather than on occasion. If Texas ever turns US 75 into a toll road, then I'm going to find a job where I work from home.

[Uncle Ted]

Never thought I would jump to the defense of SH-121. For a time, I refused to drive it after it was converted to a toll road. Perhaps I longed for the days when it was a 2-lane road with roadside brothels and little traffic. But taking LBJ/635 to the airport or Ft. Worth was horrific. Finally, I gave in and started driving it and it's worth the toll. I'd feel differently if I had to drive 121 everyday rather than on occasion. If Texas ever turns US 75 into a toll road, then I'm going to find a job where I work from home.

Yeah, I guess one good thing that the SH-121 project did was run all the brothels out of Frisco. Or maybe it was the mormons? I hear they are creating another stake up that way.

[Uncle Ted]

Exactly why Halliburton is so efficient when it comes to the military. Privatized prisons are amazing too.

One of these days, Frank, you will see the light.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Exactly why Halliburton is so efficient when it comes to the military. Privatized prisons are amazing too.

Privatized prisons are an absolute disaster. Everyone should watch the Kids for Cash documentary and see if you still think privatization is the solution to everything.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2925642/

[oxcoug]

Hey everybody, hope we're all enjoying the slow death of the Republic. This was obviously a little too highbrow for other chat environs so I brought it to the home of highbrow.

https://twitter.com/LitCritTrump/sta...15099755864064


https://twitter.com/LitCritTrump/sta...95636158423041

[Joe Public]

Hey everybody, hope we're all enjoying the slow death of the Republic. This was obviously a little too highbrow for other chat environs so I brought it to the home of highbrow.

https://twitter.com/LitCritTrump/sta...15099755864064


https://twitter.com/LitCritTrump/sta...95636158423041

Good to see you around, oxcoug.