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  • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
    Romney never raised tax rates
    http://www.factcheck.org/2007/05/gop...ebate-round-2/

    Mitt Romney claimed he didn’t raise taxes when he was governor of Massachusetts, failing to note that he increased government fees by hundreds of millions of dollars and shifted some of the state tax burden to the local level.

    [...]

    Mitt Romney said he "did not raise taxes" when he was governor of Massachusetts, when in fact he increased state fees by hundreds of millions of dollars:
    Romney: I want to make it very clear that I’m not going to raise taxes. As governor of Massachusetts, I made it very clear there, and I did not raise taxes.

    Technically, this is true, but it’s also misleading. Romney did not raise anything called a tax during his tenure as governor, but he did increase state revenues by raising various types of fees. In 2003, Romney doubled fees for court filings (which include marriage licensing fees), professional registrations and firearm licenses. Romney also quintupled the per gallon delivery fee for gasoline (money that is supposed to be for cleaning up any leaks from underground fuel tanks). All told, the fees raised more than $400 million in their first year. Romney also “closed loopholes” in the corporate tax structure, a move that generated another $150 million in increased revenue.

    In addition, Romney cut local aid, a program whereby the state supplied revenue to cities and counties. In 2004, Romney cut nearly 5 percent, or about $230 million, from the local aid budget. The Massachusetts Municipal Association, representing the state’s cities and towns, said Romney’s cut "forced communities statewide to cut services and raise local taxes and fees." The exact amount of the local tax increases hasn’t been definitively tallied, but to some extent Romney avoided a state tax increase only by forcing increases at the local level.
    Taxes, fees... the bottom line is there is less money in people's pockets.
    "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
    "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
    "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
    GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
      What kind of record do we have to judge Libertarians against?
      Ron Paul has been in government for some time. Feel free to check his record.
      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Jacob View Post
        Increase in Real Government Spending in Mass. over prior year

        2002: 0.7%
        2003: -4.7$
        2004 -2.2%
        2005: 0.8%
        2006: 0.6%
        2007: 7.5%
        Given that Romney was elected in 2002, he was responsible for the spending level from 2003-2006. Obviously, there was a big reduction in spending as soon as he took over, and a big jump the year after he left. I guess he's not as big a spender as any democrat after all.

        http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...mney-spending/


        The post went on to compare those figures with spending growth during Mr. Romney’s four-year term as governor, as calculated by the Massachusetts Taxpayers Foundation, a non-partisan fiscal watchdog.

        The Romney comparison, however, included the same error. To make a truly accurate comparison with Mr. Huckabee’s tenure in office, the base year should have been 2003, prior to Mr. Romney taking office, when state spending was $22.3 billion, as opposed to fiscal year 2004, when it was $22.5 billion.

        So under Mr. Romney, state spending went from $22.3 billion to $28.1 billion, an annual increase of 6.5 percent. Adjusted for inflation, spending went from $20.7 billion to $21.6 billion, or a 1.1 percent increase.
        "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
        "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
        "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
        GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

        Comment


        • http://www.factcheck.org/mitt_and_ru...y_orchard.html

          In Massachusetts, the tax burden figure went up under Romney, from 5.93 percent to 6.57 percent.
          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
            Ron Paul has been in government for some time. Feel free to check his record.
            "Nondescript" would come as close as any word to encapsulate his legislative career.
            Everything in life is an approximation.

            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
              "Nondescript" would come as close as any word to encapsulate his legislative career.
              If we had only listened to Ron Paul...

              [YOUTUBE]8KiRAMvAlpQ[/YOUTUBE]

              lots of people would not be dead and we wouldn't be trillons more in debt.

              And it begins again.
              "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
              "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
              "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
              GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                If we had only listened to Ron Paul...

                [YOUTUBE]8KiRAMvAlpQ[/YOUTUBE]

                lots of people would not be dead and we wouldn't be trillons more in debt.

                And it begins again.
                Trillions? This is where we get off track wrt our debt issues. What is the total cost of both wars in Afghanastan and Iraq? Hs it exceeded one trillion yet?

                That is not to say that I have issues with Ron Paul's ideas of how to fix our lack of fiscal discipline, I just don't want a bunch of lefties mindlessly echoing your rhetoric about what is really causing our massive deficits and debt.
                Do Your Damnedest In An Ostentatious Manner All The Time!
                -General George S. Patton

                I'm choosing to mostly ignore your fatuity here and instead overwhelm you with so much data that you'll maybe, just maybe, realize that you have reams to read on this subject before you can contribute meaningfully to any conversation on this topic.
                -DOCTOR Wuap

                Comment


                • Romney Derangement Syndrome.
                  “There is a great deal of difference in believing something still, and believing it again.”
                  ― W.H. Auden


                  "God made the angels to show His splendour - as He made animals for innocence and plants for their simplicity. But men and women He made to serve Him wittily, in the tangle of their minds."
                  -- Robert Bolt, A Man for All Seasons


                  "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
                  --Antoine de Saint-Exupery

                  Comment



                  • Romney was elected in 2002, so it seems that 2003 would be a relevant year.

                    It is true that Romney raised fees. It is also true that he cut spending and balanced the budget. Perhaps you'd have preferred the state went into default or tried to borrow a bunch of money, but there is only so much a guy can do with the Massachusetts legislature. And he didn't raise tax rates and he did cut spending.

                    Here's that link you asked for regarding historical spending in Mass
                    http://sunshinereview.org/index.php/...s_state_budget

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                      Trillions? This is where we get off track wrt our debt issues. What is the total cost of both wars in Afghanastan and Iraq? Hs it exceeded one trillion yet?
                      http://costofwar.com/en/

                      Add to that what it will cost for all the veterans of these wars in entitlements.

                      Originally posted by Goatnapper'96 View Post
                      That is not to say that I have issues with Ron Paul's ideas of how to fix our lack of fiscal discipline, I just don't want a bunch of lefties mindlessly echoing your rhetoric about what is really causing our massive deficits and debt.
                      If you take out entitlements (like social security) which suppose be it own separate trust (that the government keeps dipping into)...

                      "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                      "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                      "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                      GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Uncle Ted View Post
                        If we had only listened to Ron Paul...

                        [YOUTUBE]8KiRAMvAlpQ[/YOUTUBE]

                        lots of people would not be dead and we wouldn't be trillons more in debt.

                        And it begins again.
                        So the biggest feather in his cap is speaking out against Afghanistan/Iraq? Wow. Impressive.

                        Paul hasn't done a damn thing as a legislator. He doesn't possess the leadership skills necessary to make a difference. He makes John Kerry's senatorial career seem astonishingly productive.
                        Everything in life is an approximation.

                        http://twitter.com/CougarStats

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                          So the biggest feather in his cap is speaking out against Afghanistan/Iraq? Wow. Impressive.

                          Paul hasn't done a damn thing as a legislator. He doesn't possess the leadership skills necessary to make a difference. He makes John Kerry's senatorial career seem astonishingly productive.
                          You should become more of a student of Ron Paul. For example:

                          [YOUTUBE]9S3lXDOQ7ec[/YOUTUBE]

                          The truth is your congressman most likely didn't do a damn thing when Paul warned them. Obama has done more of the same shit, the only difference is that it is a different day.
                          "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                          "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                          "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                          GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                          Comment


                          • I called the housing collapse two years before it happened. I've passed no legislation of any consequence. Can I get elected instead of Ron Paul?
                            Everything in life is an approximation.

                            http://twitter.com/CougarStats

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                              I called the housing collapse two years before it happened. I've passed no legislation of any consequence. Can I get elected instead of Ron Paul?
                              No, you're not likeable enough.
                              Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

                              "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Indy Coug View Post
                                I called the housing collapse two years before it happened. I've passed no legislation of any consequence. Can I get elected instead of Ron Paul?
                                Wow! Did you also predict the increase in terrorist attacks (i.e. 9/11) thanks to the illegal acts of war by clinton?

                                [YOUTUBE]4hJTisovvjc[/YOUTUBE]
                                "If there is one thing I am, it's always right." -Ted Nugent.
                                "I honestly believe saying someone is a smart lawyer is damning with faint praise. The smartest people become engineers and scientists." -SU.
                                "Yet I still see wisdom in that which Uncle Ted posts." -creek.
                                GIVE 'EM HELL, BRIGHAM!

                                Comment

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