The Police Brutality Thread

[taekwondave]

There will always be an underbelly of society willing to take illegal risks in exchange for money. Sure we can end the war on drugs (how do we do this....are you saying we make all drugs legal or are you just saying the punishments for drugs shouldn't be as severe?) but that won't eliminate poverty, or the lack of education and opportunities available to the lower class. Individuals will still be willing to take risks for cash. They will simply focus there efforts on other things.

No but it will reduce violence. Which is what we're talking about.

[taekwondave]

You're crazy. But that has nothing to do with this thread.

If Kapernick articulates a cogent basis for his refusal to stand it will be the first time.

Meh. I'd rather focus on his intent. Ya'll can attack him for his delivery if you want. I know we're big on delivery here

[taekwondave]

4.7% of the black male population is incarcerated. Even if you think they're the fathers of twice the number of births than the rest of the black male population due to the average age of an incarcerated male being is younger, they're only accounting for 10% of those pregnancies. But on top of that, how many of those men in prison fathered a child and went to prison between conception and jail time?

If someone really wants to look at something eye opening, look at the STD rate differences between the races. I assume that more sexual partners combined with more unprotected sex leads to the rather shocking std rate gap.

What are you driving at?

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Call me crazy, I know calling a black guy smart and savvy in this country is a no no, but I thought the Castro shirt was PART of his commentary. I doubt he's a fan of Castro. Looked to me like he was saying that's the direction America was going, given that we was just talking about the direction America was going..

But nah...he's a moron and a bad quarterback. He probably just really likes Castro

So, Kaep wears a Malcolm X hat and the shirt features Fidel Castro and Malcolm X with a caption of "Like Minds Think Alike" and you're thinking that Kaepernick is weaving some savvy masterpiece of commentary here?

Yeah I'll call you crazy, and dumb.

[creekster]

Meh. I'd rather focus on his intent. Ya'll can attack him for his delivery if you want. I know we're big on delivery here

What is his intent? Thats the most puzzling thing. He plans to sit until the country is perfect? Until there is no more unjust behavior by police? Until racism is eradicated? What is his intent? It utterly escapes me what he plans to do. In fact, I think his little campaign is highly counterproductive becasue while it does make us talk about it more, perhpas, it also makes it much easier to ridicule his apparent side of it becasue he is protesting against the flag, which represents so many positive things for minorities, not just negative things. Accordingly, this makes it much easier for people not inclined to support minority rights to feel justified in continuing on their way.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

What are you driving at?

I'm not driving at anything aside from the fact the CDC reports that a 15-19 black male is literally over 30x more likely to have gonorrhea than a 15-19 year old Asian male. The number of Asian babies born to single parent homes is also a small fraction of the black baby rate.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Well, they believe the actual stat is 1 in 4 now. And again, I'd be surprised if more than 10% of these babies' fathers were in jail at the time of their birth. I understand it's a huge problem as an ongoing concern throughout the early life of black children. Obviously a significant portion of their fathers will be in a jail at some point in time during their youth.

Why would there need to be a 1:1 correlation? Every community has some degree of fatherless homes so are talking about the differential here. Poverty obviously would play a huge role and blacks are more likely to be poor. And let's suppose you have a father in jail with 2-3 kids. Those kids grow up without a dad and are therefore far more inclined to repeat the pattern even if they don't go to jail themselves.

Also, if you go back and examine the black communities prior to 1980's and the War on Drugs this phenomenon didn't exist at anywhere near the scale it does now.

I think the higher incarceration rates for similar crimes is also due to the percentage of blacks residing in urban areas. If a guy is in possession of drugs in Cedar City, Utah, it may be viewed as an infrequent case and something that is otherwise not making Cedar City an unsafe place to live. In Detroit, that same guy is part of the cancer that plagues the entire city, so he needs to be taken out of the general population.

Frankly, I would be shocked if the rates (as a percentage of the population) differ between the two areas. Might even be worse in rural areas. Tulia Texas is a rural community.

[snowcat]

African americans are estimated to make-up only 0.2% of the total Brigham City Utah population but they make up 100% of the football players signed by BYU over the last two years.

[taekwondave]

If anyone is interesting in exploring this problem more deeply, I would like to recommend a couple of book. Here is the first:

Tulia: Race, Cocaine, and Corruption in a Small Texas Town

https://www.amazon.com/Tulia-Cocaine...keywords=tulia

This book tells the true story of how 39 people (mostly black and poor) were convicted on cocaine busts by a white undercover officer who was eager to get some busts to further his career. He won several awards. In all cases, there was zero evidence other than the cop's testimony. Nevertheless, almost all were convicted and given extreme sentences up to 99 years. 39 effing convictions with no evidence. How is that possible? Harsh sentencing laws and a system completely rigged in favor of the prosecution and biased against poor colored people. A perfect case study of everything wrong with the War on Drugs.

Also,

The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness

https://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-...e+new+jim+crow

This book is an indictment of the War on Drugs, mass incarceration, and our criminal justice system. After reading the introduction I thought, "Pshaw... No way. This sounds like over-the-top, Al-Sharpton-style propaganda." But the author then tackles each issue slowly and methodically, with tons of hard data. The author addresses arguments and counter-arguments fairly and convincingly. I came into this already convinced that the War on Drugs was a mistake, but the book really opened my eyes to the extraordinary impact it has had. Highly recommended.

I definitely like you again.

[taekwondave]

So, Kaep wears a Malcolm X hat and the shirt features Fidel Castro and Malcolm X with a caption of "Like Minds Think Alike" and you're thinking that Kaepernick is weaving some savvy masterpiece of commentary here?

Yeah I'll call you crazy, and dumb.

I would hardly call that a masterpiece. But I don't think HE's as dumb as you seem to think he is. I think he's less inconsistent than you're suggesting.

[taekwondave]

What is his intent? Thats the most puzzling thing. He plans to sit until the country is perfect? Until there is no more unjust behavior by police? Until racism is eradicated? What is his intent? It utterly escapes me what he plans to do. In fact, I think his little campaign is highly counterproductive becasue while it does make us talk about it more, perhpas, it also makes it much easier to ridicule his apparent side of it becasue he is protesting against the flag, which represents so many positive things for minorities, not just negative things. Accordingly, this makes it much easier for people not inclined to support minority rights to feel justified in continuing on their way.

I think a lot of people out there, hell a lot of us ON HERE are asking the question, don't know what the solution is to the problem. I don't have a problem with a famous athlete standing up and saying he has a problem with the problem though. He may not know what the solution to the bigger picture is either, but from what I heard him say, at the very LEAST we could make sure that cops don't get off with paid leave if they really do kill a defenseless person. He mentioned that specifically. I don't see anything wrong with viewing his action as a simple cry for help. What I dont' get though is why people like you take it so damn personally.

I'll go with racism. Or you're a Cowboys fan

[taekwondave]

I'm not driving at anything aside from the fact the CDC reports that a 15-19 black male is literally over 30x more likely to have gonorrhea than a 15-19 year old Asian male. The number of Asian babies born to single parent homes is also a small fraction of the black baby rate.

Oh so those stats aren't a part of a larger point you're trying to make? We're just throwing around stats now for fun? What is your point? Are black people just bad people? Or are their choices/behavior more a result of a bad system? If the system, then what do you think needs to change about that system. Personally I think the war on drugs is the first thing. Once that happens I'll formulate a theory on the next thing.

Because bro, you do sound racist when you throw out those stats and don't tell us what you think they suggest. But of course, you're no racist, so why don't you humor us and tell us what you're driving at?

[creekster]

I think a lot of people out there, hell a lot of us ON HERE are asking the question, don't know what the solution is to the problem. I don't have a problem with a famous athlete standing up and saying he has a problem with the problem though. He may not know what the solution to the bigger picture is either, but from what I heard him say, at the very LEAST we could make sure that cops don't get off with paid leave if they really do kill a defenseless person. He mentioned that specifically. I don't see anything wrong with viewing his action as a simple cry for help. What I dont' get though is why people like you take it so damn personally.

I'll go with racism. Or you're a Cowboys fan

Are you obtuse? He isnt proposing a solution. He is protesting a symbol which is at most tangentially related to the apparent (but as of now very vaguely asserted) purpose of his protest. He is not proposing and has never proposed ANY solution. Instead, he is just unhappy and is acting like a petulant child. I have no problem with his right to be unhappy or his right to protest in the precise fashion he is choosing. My point is that he has never articulated what it is he wants, or how he himself would even know when progress has been made and. moreover, the mechanism he has chosen is counterproductive, particularly with the base that needs to be changed. Sure, he can do whatever he wants, but if he does it stupidly he deserves to be called out for doing it stupidly.

And what on earth makes you think I am taking it personally? FTR I am a niners fan, btw. I have lived in or near SF for 30+ years.

[creekster]

Oh so those stats aren't a part of a larger point you're trying to make? We're just throwing around stats now for fun? What is your point? Are black people just bad people? Or are their choices/behavior more a result of a bad system? If the system, then what do you think needs to change about that system. Personally I think the war on drugs is the first thing. Once that happens I'll formulate a theory on the next thing.

Because bro, you do sound racist when you throw out those stats and don't tell us what you think they suggest. But of course, you're no racist, so why don't you humor us and tell us what you're driving at?

Have you read the thread "bro?" Becasue if you had you would understand the context for his posts.

[Non Sequitur]

Sorry, but that is terrible logic. What if he sacrificed his freedom by committing some kind of terrorist act? We would be talking about the issue once again, right?

Methods matter. And what he says and does matters. He's an idiot and he is not helping the cause.

But he didn't commit a terrorist act. He merely sat during the national anthem. That's the method at issue, and as methods go it's pretty benign. It might be uncomfortable, but it's non-violent and it adds to the discussion. At the time John Carlos and Tommie Smith raised their fists during the national anthem, most white people probably thought they were idiots and not helping the cause. In hindsight they weren't idiots.