The Police Brutality Thread

[Commando]

Wow, please read the post and don't put it in your own words. That is a JL trick. First I said I don't doubt you. I never said I haven't heard of cops pulling over black folks for no reason. I said black women and that may be happening to a large degree too, but I have only heard mainly about black males.

Easy there. I'm not pulling any tricks and this doesn't even appear to be a disagreement. I joke around a lot. "you are honorable and wouldn't make something up" along w the assertion that you have not heard of this even after watching cable news for a month sounds to be a bit TIC, too. Black people in general are subject to heightened scrutiny from the police. This isn't even really a debate.

[myboynoah]

The work of law enforcement coarsens the people who do it--even those who do it for the best of reasons. Maybe cops should periodically rotate to community development work or something.

Interesting idea. Does it have legs anywhere?

[BlueK]

I have been harassed a lot. And yes it was in my younger days due to my social class, crappiness of car, and appearance. Now that I wear a tie to work, that crap has come to a stop. Thank goodness I'm white! :rockon2:

Last week I had a cop follow me closely on my way to work for about five miles until I finally pulled into the parking lot of the office building where I work. It was pretty dang obvious he was trying to find a reason for pulling me over. I have no idea why. As I made my turn into my office building lot I knew it was decision time for the cop and didn't know if he'd follow me in and pull me over or if he was going to keep going. He kept going. Maybe they were looking for someone driving a vehicle similar to mine. I don't know. But it was kind of creepy and unnerving. And it's not like I live in a small rural town where roads are one lane each way. These five miles were all on roads with at least three lanes each way, lots of other cars, and my route to work involved multiple turns which he matched exactly where I was going. It's also a wealthy part of town, I'm white, and I was driving a new (2016) SUV. I can say it was highly annoying, but I didn't feel like I was at risk of getting beat up or killed if he had pulled me over. But it still felt harrassing, like he was trying really hard to find a reason to write me a ticket. Unless I and my vehicle fit the description of some real criminal they were looking for, I can't think of a legit reason a cop would single someone out like that.

[Commando]

Last week I had a cop follow me closely on my way to work for about five miles until I finally pulled into the parking lot of the office building where I work. It was pretty dang obvious he was trying to find a reason for pulling me over. I have no idea why. As I made my turn into my office building lot I knew it was decision time for the cop and didn't know if he'd follow me in and pull me over or if he was going to keep going. He kept going. Maybe they were looking for someone driving a vehicle similar to mine. I don't know. But it was kind of creepy and unnerving. And it's not like I live in a small rural town where roads are one lane each way. These five miles were all on roads with at least three lanes each way, lots of other cars, and my route to work involved multiple turns which he matched exactly where I was going. It's also a wealthy part of town, I'm white, and I was driving a new (2016) SUV. I can say it was highly annoying, but I didn't feel like I was at risk of getting beat up or killed if he had pulled me over. But it still felt harrassing, like he was trying really hard to find a reason to write me a ticket. Unless I and my vehicle fit the description of some real criminal they were looking for, I can't think of a legit reason a cop would single someone out like that.

My last legit harassment was when I was actually in law school driving south to Utah from Idaho. I was going exactly the speed limit- not the 5 over like is the unwritten law of the land. Anyway, I got pulled over and the dude was circling my vehicle, pointing out a leak here, a busted reflector there... still nothing. Tried the old trick of asking me how fast I was going to see if I would incriminate myself and I said "75 miles per hour." Well, after going to his car to perform a fruitless background check, he returned and asked if he could search my vehicle "to ensure the safety of the interstate thoroughfare" or some bullshit. When I declined, he asked why to give me one more chance to provide probable cause/reasonable suspicion to effect the search w/out my consent. I just told him I needed to get going. Man, nothing really happened, but I get mad every time I think of that incident. F*** that guy. I don't know how much worse my outlook would be if I was black and it happened like 5x more often.

[byu71]

Easy there. I'm not pulling any tricks and this doesn't even appear to be a disagreement. I joke around a lot. "you are honorable and wouldn't make something up" along w the assertion that you have not heard of this even after watching cable news for a month sounds to be a bit TIC, too. Black people in general are subject to heightened scrutiny from the police. This isn't even really a debate.

Too serious for me to do tic. If black women are being harassed, then I hope it can change

[Pelado]

Last week I had a cop follow me closely on my way to work for about five miles until I finally pulled into the parking lot of the office building where I work. It was pretty dang obvious he was trying to find a reason for pulling me over. I have no idea why. As I made my turn into my office building lot I knew it was decision time for the cop and didn't know if he'd follow me in and pull me over or if he was going to keep going. He kept going. Maybe they were looking for someone driving a vehicle similar to mine. I don't know. But it was kind of creepy and unnerving. And it's not like I live in a small rural town where roads are one lane each way. These five miles were all on roads with at least three lanes each way, lots of other cars, and my route to work involved multiple turns which he matched exactly where I was going. It's also a wealthy part of town, I'm white, and I was driving a new (2016) SUV. I can say it was highly annoying, but I didn't feel like I was at risk of getting beat up or killed if he had pulled me over. But it still felt harrassing, like he was trying really hard to find a reason to write me a ticket. Unless I and my vehicle fit the description of some real criminal they were looking for, I can't think of a legit reason a cop would single someone out like that.

Had a county cop follow me for a while a month or so ago. I saw him stopped behind a few cars at an intersection in the left hand lane as I passed in the right hand lane. After the light turned green, I saw him quickly change lanes and then follow me through a couple of turns into my neighborhood. I made an extra effort to stay within the speed limit and not give him a reason to pull me over. He stopped tailing me before I got to my street/house.

I'm guessing he started following me because of my curiosity. When I saw the county vehicle, I wondered if it was a friend of mine who works there, so I took a good look as I passed him. He probably interpreted it differently than I intended.

[BlueK]

I had another time when I was close to my neighborhood but was still driving on a major road. A cop suddenly turned off of a side street onto the main road I was on and coincidentally right behind me. The thing is, it happened right before I needed to turn onto a side street to get to my house. It would have looked to the cop as though I did that to not be in front of him. Of course he followed me. I just kept driving through the neighborhood to my house. After a few more turns he turned away and stopped following me. I'm assuming he ran my plates, saw nothing wrong, saw my address, and then realized I was just going home.

[Bo Diddley]

Last week I had a cop follow me closely on my way to work for about five miles until I finally pulled into the parking lot of the office building where I work. It was pretty dang obvious he was trying to find a reason for pulling me over. I have no idea why. As I made my turn into my office building lot I knew it was decision time for the cop and didn't know if he'd follow me in and pull me over or if he was going to keep going. He kept going. Maybe they were looking for someone driving a vehicle similar to mine. I don't know. But it was kind of creepy and unnerving. And it's not like I live in a small rural town where roads are one lane each way. These five miles were all on roads with at least three lanes each way, lots of other cars, and my route to work involved multiple turns which he matched exactly where I was going. It's also a wealthy part of town, I'm white, and I was driving a new (2016) SUV. I can say it was highly annoying, but I didn't feel like I was at risk of getting beat up or killed if he had pulled me over. But it still felt harrassing, like he was trying really hard to find a reason to write me a ticket. Unless I and my vehicle fit the description of some real criminal they were looking for, I can't think of a legit reason a cop would single someone out like that.

He may have been running your plate. I know they do that frequently. I've had that happen to me too.

Actually, the last time I was even pulled over was in 2007. I was probably going 15 over, but was in military uniform, and the guy kind of made a joke and left.

We know there are several factors that feed into abuse of power. It's a natural consequence of the system, and there are bad apples and people who have no business working in law enforcement. But it cost $$$$ to fire them and to replace and train someone else. It also costs $$$$ to attract the type of people you want working in law enforcement. It costs $$$$ to place police officers in the community, rather than spread out in cars. You get what you pay for, so maybe we need to be willing to pay more to fix the problem.

Another huge part is training people to overcome their biases. When a certain demographic commits more crimes than others, how do you overcome that bias in practice? I too know people from minorities who are pulled over all the time, even though they drive very much like me. And I've been pulled over once in over 10 years.

[BlueK]

I just finished a 6-month assignment to serve on my county's grand jury. In Texas, every single felony case gets presented to a grand jury before it can move forward. The grand jury looks at the evidence and decides whether to allow it to move forward or not. I can say I do have respect for law enforcement as a result of my service. However, I also learned a couple of other things based on what was presented to us from many cases over those six months:

1. In the county where I live probably two-thirds of all felony cases involve drunk driving repeat offenders and drugs. Maybe 90% are those two plus domestic violence.

2. It is very common practice for cops to just sit and run plates. Some will hang out in parking lots and do just that to see if they have a reason to stop anyone.

3. It is also common practice for cops to hang out in areas known to be places people buy drugs (parking lots of certain low-price hotels). Usually the drug offenders are carrying small amounts. What they seem to do is just follow every car that comes out of that hotel to see if they can catch them doing the slightest thing wrong like changing lanes without signalling, broken light, a couple of miles over the speed limit, etc.) Then if they pull over a car and don't see any obvious signs of drug possession and the driver doesn't admit to anything they call for backup. When the backup arrives it is a K-9 unit so they can let the dog run around the car to see if it smells anything. The car with the dog is usually hidden somewhere nearby to be on hand as needed. They only do this if they can't find probable cause to that point.

By the way, here is one of the hotels I'm referring to: the Econolodge in Richardson, TX. It is a cheap place to stay but not necessarily trashy looking from the outside. It sits next to office buildings housing mostly IT and high-tech type companies. As a law abiding citizen I never would have known it was a hotbed of lower level drug dealing.

https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en...DQcQoioIlwEwCg


And they do catch some people possessing drugs when they do this. But it makes me wonder how many of these we didn't hear about because the person didn't have drugs and they let them on their way with just a minor traffic ticket instead. I'm cynical enough to assume the latter is the majority. While we had to follow the law and move these cases forward when the search was done legally and the evidence was there, it kind of became a running joke within our group about how we all learned never to be in those neighborhoods. But, if we were unfortunate enough to ever find ourselves in one of those hot spots, to make sure we're not doing anything as egregious as changing lanes without signalling.

[wuapinmon]

He may have been running your plate. I know they do that frequently. I've had that happen to me too.

Actually, the last time I was even pulled over was in 2007. I was probably going 15 over, but was in military uniform, and the guy kind of made a joke and left.

We know there are several factors that feed into abuse of power. It's a natural consequence of the system, and there are bad apples and people who have no business working in law enforcement. But it cost $$$$ to fire them and to replace and train someone else. It also costs $$$$ to attract the type of people you want working in law enforcement. It costs $$$$ to place police officers in the community, rather than spread out in cars. You get what you pay for, so maybe we need to be willing to pay more to fix the problem.

Another huge part is training people to overcome their biases. When a certain demographic commits more crimes than others, how do you overcome that bias in practice? I too know people from minorities who are pulled over all the time, even though they drive very much like me. And I've been pulled over once in over 10 years.

I am willing to pay more in taxes, if, like property taxes here in South Carolina, the taxes were line-itemed as "Police Support Taxes" on my property taxes, so that cops made more and got sabbaticals. In return, I want exacting standards--including civilian oversight of the police, and a professionalized, college-educated police force. I'm willing to pay a lot more for that.

[wuapinmon]

3. It is also common practice for cops to hang out in areas known to be places people buy drugs (parking lots of certain low-price hotels). Usually the drug offenders are carrying small amounts. What they seem to do is just follow every car that comes out of that hotel to see if they can catch them doing the slightest thing wrong like changing lanes without signalling, broken light, a couple of miles over the speed limit, etc.) Then if they pull over a car and don't see any obvious signs of drug possession and the driver doesn't admit to anything they call for backup. When the backup arrives it is a K-9 unit so they can let the dog run around the car to see if it smells anything. The car with the dog is usually hidden somewhere nearby to be on hand as needed. They only do this if they can't find probable cause to that point.

This is such a massive waste of our resources in law enforcement, the judicial system, paying attorneys, and the penal system. We should legalize all habit-forming drugs and deal with those consequences and stop paying cops to do this harassing bullshit.

[Commando]

When the backup arrives it is a K-9 unit so they can let the dog run around the car to see if it smells anything. The car with the dog is usually hidden somewhere nearby to be on hand as needed. They only do this if they can't find probable cause to that point.

Heh. And anecdotally, my nephew was pulled over by police in Milwaukee when he was heading home. No cause. However, the cop smelled incense in the car (b/c my nephew's gross like that) and called the K-9 unit. When my nephew refused to consent to a search, the K-9 was called over and, according to my nephew, was manually 'activated' by the cop by snapping or throwing a ball or something, and made to look like the dog found something. "oh looks like he smells something!" The police proceeded to search the car and found nothing. Weird.

[The_Tick]

Apparently you all are really bad drivers or we hang out in completely different circles.

I haven't been pulled over since 2004. Nice cars, crappy cars...doesn't matter.

And I don't know anyone that is repeatedly getting pulled over by LEO's. I guess I need to diversify my friend/work/church pool.

[BlueK]

Apparently you all are really bad drivers or we hang out in completely different circles.

I haven't been pulled over since 2004. Nice cars, crappy cars...doesn't matter.

And I don't know anyone that is repeatedly getting pulled over by LEO's. I guess I need to diversify my friend/work/church pool.

I didn't say anything about having been pulled over myself. However, my first-hand experience with police techniques are from listening to their testimony from sitting on a grand jury for six months. I know what they're doing in my county based on that. It's not speculation.

[Surfah]

You guys are all paranoid.