The Police Brutality Thread

[ERCougar]

Interesting that the Ferguson situation gets all the media attention yet a similar officer shooting an unarmed young man occurred in SLC two days after Ferguson but nothing has been mentioned in the national media. The only real difference, from what little details we have regarding either situation, is the race of the officer and the young men are reversed.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-coverage-of-/

Why is that interesting? Do you honestly not see the difference?

In general, I stand with the police officers in these scenarios as I think they have an extraordinarily hard job, and it appears the Ferguson officer was more than justified, but I think the racial under representation in police forces should be addressed. How to do that, I don't know, but it's at least getting some much needed attention.

[imanihonjin]

Why is that interesting? Do you honestly not see the difference?

In general, I stand with the police officers in these scenarios as I think they have an extraordinarily hard job, and it appears the Ferguson officer was more than justified, but I think the racial under representation in police forces should be addressed. How to do that, I don't know, but it's at least getting some much needed attention.

No I don't see the difference. Please enlighten me.

[Maximus]

Why is that interesting? Do you honestly not see the difference?

In general, I stand with the police officers in these scenarios as I think they have an extraordinarily hard job, and it appears the Ferguson officer was more than justified, but I think the racial under representation in police forces should be addressed. How to do that, I don't know, but it's at least getting some much needed attention.

You cant say there is a difference simply because of the race.

[ERCougar]

You cant say there is a difference simply because of the race.

Weird. It sure looks like I can.

[ERCougar]

I'll just nip what I'm sure would be a very fruitful discussion in the bud with this: racism still exists. It's completely understandable and pretty deeply ingrained, with deep evolutionary roots. Besides the obvious socioeconomic differences between races, ingroup/outgroup behavior is well-established by lots and lots of academic work, but if you don't like that, common sense would tell you that we tend to treat people like us more warmly and openly than those not like us, even subconsciously if not consciously, and that race is one of the quickest and most convenient ways our brains use to determine those like us. You really can't avoid that, despite your best efforts, in low stress situations, but add the stress of a potentially violent encounter, and it becomes even more impossible. To me therefore, the goal of higher representation of underrepresented minorities on police forces is a no brainer. And that's to say nothing of a pretty ugly and long history of overtly racist police behavior in our country.

So no, it's not all that surprising to me that a white cop shooting a black guy is more newsworthy than a black cop shooting a Hispanic guy.

[imanihonjin]

I'll just nip what I'm sure would be a very fruitful discussion in the bud with this: racism still exists. It's completely understandable and pretty deeply ingrained, with deep evolutionary roots. Besides the obvious socioeconomic differences between races, ingroup/outgroup behavior is well-established by lots and lots of academic work, but if you don't like that, common sense would tell you that we tend to treat people like us more warmly and openly than those not like us, even subconsciously if not consciously, and that race is one of the quickest and most convenient ways our brains use to determine those like us. You really can't avoid that, despite your best efforts, in low stress situations, but add the stress of a potentially violent encounter, and it becomes even more impossible. To me therefore, the goal of higher representation of underrepresented minorities on police forces is a no brainer. And that's to say nothing of a pretty ugly and long history of overtly racist police behavior in our country.

So no, it's not all that surprising to me that a white cop shooting a black guy is more newsworthy than a black cop shooting a Hispanic guy.

Yet nobody can point to anything other than stereotypes in order to make a point about stereotyping. For all I know Officer Wilson might be the biggest racist ever known to man, he may also be a saint. No piece of evidence has come out to support the fact that this was an incident fueled by racism yet every stereotype is being thrown out against Officer Wilson to make it look like racism was a cause. Quite simply we don't know yet for some reason there is no inference that a black cop would have used any preconceptions to cause him to pull the trigger too soon. Why is that....you talk about in group/outgroup behavior but appear to imply that it only has one way application that is noteworthy. Why is that?

[ERCougar]

Yet nobody can point to anything other than stereotypes in order to make a point about stereotyping. For all I know Officer Wilson might be the biggest racist ever known to man, he may also be a saint. No piece of evidence has come out to support the fact that this was an incident fueled by racism yet every stereotype is being thrown out against Officer Wilson to make it look like racism was a cause. Quite simply we don't know yet for some reason there is no inference that a black cop would have used any preconceptions to cause him to pull the trigger too soon. Why is that....you talk about in group/outgroup behavior but appear to imply that it only has one way application that is noteworthy. Why is that?

No I don't. Ingroup/outgroup behavior has all kinds of applications. But I think this thread is about police work, no?

[imanihonjin]

No I don't. Ingroup/outgroup behavior has all kinds of applications. But I think this thread is about police work, no?

Indeed, this thread is about police work. However, I don't understand your position. You acknowledge that ingroup/outgroup behavior has all kinds of applications....and you presumably think that its application is noteworthy with respect to a white cop shooting a black unarmed young man, but don't appear to believe that its application is noteworthy with respect to a black cop shooting a white/hispanic unarmed young man. I don't understand why the disparate treatment of identical cases in every meaningful way that we know about.

[ERCougar]

Indeed, this thread is about police work. However, I don't understand your position. You acknowledge that ingroup/outgroup behavior has all kinds of applications....and you presumably think that its application is noteworthy with respect to a white cop shooting a black unarmed young man, but don't appear to believe that its application is noteworthy with respect to a black cop shooting a white/hispanic unarmed young man. I don't understand why the disparate treatment of identical cases in every meaningful way that we know about.

My point with the ingroup stuff is to point out that everyone is naturally a little racist, if only subconsciously. So yeah, black racism against whites exists. And sure, the SLC case should be investigated, as I'm sure it is. However, what makes the Ferguson case more newsworthy (besides the the obvious history issue) is that white people are disproportionately in power, more specifically in the police force, and there is thus a higher potential for abuse. Additionally, it highlights the need for a more representative police. Like any ingroup/outgroup, real exposure to individuals in the outgroup can help break down the natural mistrust. See also gay rights. And black athletes.

Again, it appears the officer in Ferguson was completely justified, but it's a little beside the greater point.

[Topper]

My point with the ingroup stuff is to point out that everyone is naturally a little racist, if only subconsciously. So yeah, black racism against whites exists. And sure, the SLC case should be investigated, as I'm sure it is. However, what makes the Ferguson case more newsworthy (besides the the obvious history issue) is that white people are disproportionately in power, more specifically in the police force, and there is thus a higher potential for abuse. Additionally, it highlights the need for a more representative police. Like any ingroup/outgroup, real exposure to individuals in the outgroup can help break down the natural mistrust. See also gay rights. And black athletes.

Again, it appears the officer in Ferguson was completely justified, but it's a little beside the greater point.

Catch me up. How is he completely justified?

I only saw he had his eye socket busted up. How does that justify killing an unarmed man once the man started to flee without a weapon?

[ERCougar]

Catch me up. How is he completely justified?

I only saw he had his eye socket busted up. How does that justify killing an unarmed man once the man started to flee without a weapon?

I haven't followed the play by play all that closely, but the last I had seen, that isn't how the shooting went down. Maybe I'm behind.

[Topper]

I haven't followed the play by play all that closely, but the last I had seen, that isn't how the shooting went down. Maybe I'm behind.

Neither have I followed it blow by blow. How did the shooting go down as you understand it? All I had heard were fragments. First, I heard the dead youth was thirty feet from the car without a weapon. Next, I heard the officer had a busted orbital and that there was a conflagration near the vehicle. Further, I heard the youth accosted somebody in a convenience store. By no means does the evidence look like the youth deserved to be killed but if there is more evidence which frankly I don't have time to sift through, please provide a summary.

[imanihonjin]

My point with the ingroup stuff is to point out that everyone is naturally a little racist, if only subconsciously. So yeah, black racism against whites exists. And sure, the SLC case should be investigated, as I'm sure it is. However, what makes the Ferguson case more newsworthy (besides the the obvious history issue) is that white people are disproportionately in power, more specifically in the police force, and there is thus a higher potential for abuse. Additionally, it highlights the need for a more representative police. Like any ingroup/outgroup, real exposure to individuals in the outgroup can help break down the natural mistrust. See also gay rights. And black athletes.

Again, it appears the officer in Ferguson was completely justified, but it's a little beside the greater point.

As I understand you, you believe that the greater point has to with representation on the Ferguson police department (this for another day as the Chief of the highway patrol, who was black, was called every Uncle Tom type pejorative you can think of for playing his responsible part) is some greater point. Based on the facts that we know at this point in time, what does representation on the Ferguson police have anything to do with this particular issue? Are you saying that if a white officer had shot Mr. Brown and that their had been more black police officers in Ferguson that this story would have received as much attention as the shooting in SLC?

My point is simply that I find it interesting that based on what we know, people in the media and on the Facebook want to draw upon every stereotype they can to make this shooting a case of a white man unjustifiably gunning down an unarmed black young man. I find it interesting that they want to fight white privilege and the stereotyping of black young men and the way that they have done so has been to rely upon stereotypes of white people.

[smokymountainrain]

Neither have I followed it blow by blow. How did the shooting go down as you understand it? All I had heard were fragments. First, I heard the dead youth was thirty feet from the car without a weapon. Next, I heard the officer had a busted orbital and that there was a conflagration near the vehicle. Further, I heard the youth accosted somebody in a convenience store. By no means does the evidence look like the youth deserved to be killed but if there is more evidence which frankly I don't have time to sift through, please provide a summary.

Sincere question: Is there ever a point at which it is okay for the police to shoot an unarmed man running away? Known serial killer happens to be unarmed, is running from the cops, they feel he will get away...can they shoot?

Obviously Brown isn't near that scale of dangerous, but the bigger question is whether or not the cops are ever justified in shooting a known dangerous person who happens to be fleeing whether armed or unarmed. Are they doing all they can to protect and serve if they let dangerous people get away when they could stop them with a bullet?

[Topper]

Sincere question: Is there ever a point at which it is okay for the police to shoot an unarmed man running away? Known serial killer happens to be unarmed, is running from the cops, they feel he will get away...can they shoot?

Obviously Brown isn't near that scale of dangerous, but the bigger question is whether or not the cops are ever justified in shooting a known dangerous person who happens to be fleeing whether armed or unarmed. Are they doing all they can to protect and serve if they let dangerous people get away when they could stop them with a bullet?

It would be rare for police to be justified in shooting an unarmed man. I suppose you might be able to justify it if the unarmed man or woman had killed people unarmed and was fleeing. I would not go as far as to say, "never", but extremely rare. The little bit I have heard does NOT appear to justify shooting him. But the opinion could change if a more accurate detailing of the events are provided.