The Police Brutality Thread

[TripletDaddy]

Please note that I've not said word one about the Missouri shooting. That case needs to be investigated. The issue that worries me is the militarization of our police force. Cops have so much authority I feel that they must be held to higher standards than they currently are. The notion that we can't question them about their job (which I hear on facebook all the time) is bunk. Their authority stems directly from the people; what authority they have was given to them by us. It is our right as citizens to question every single decision they make that involves a potential infringement of someone else's civil rights, especially since we surrendered our right to use violence to solve problems to the Leviathan of government. They should welcome questioning and second-guessing of what they do.

I have had police officers help me before. I have also seen flat-out racism, including a white cop asking me to lie and say that a black man didn't use his turn signal (when he did). When I refused to lie, another officer told me they didn't need to take a statement from me (I was the only witness to the wreck). I gave the civilian my contact information and got the hell out of there; I shouldn't have to be fearful of the law for doing the right thing. I've had cops say racist shit right to me before. For example, when looking for something that was stolen in New Orleans, a cop just said "Niggers probably took it; you'll never get it back." His partner, rather than correcting him said something like, "Yep, 9 times out of 10." I'm not some white guy second-guessing things I read about on the internet. I have reason and cause to question every goddamn thing they say or do. Deferring to their better judgment is how we get snipers on rooftops and babies having flashbangs thrown into their cribs in the name of serving no-knock warrants on non-violent crimes. Cops are often faced with tough decisions. It's the job. They get training to know what to do in those decisions. But, cops also self-aggrandize and respond negatively when someone questions their reasoning, correctness, or--god forbid--their authority. I have a colleague who used to be a cop. If you challenge her on something, even if it's innocuous or unimportant, you can see her nostrils flare and her posture change, and she's eight years away from the job. That same mindset, left unchecked, leads to sodomizing immigrants with broom handles and dumping paraplegics to the floor to search them.

Most cops are decent hard-working fair people. I'm not about the individuals; I'm about the institutions. So, go on; get mad at me if you like. Call me out; put words in my mouth; unfriend me. I will continue to collect examples of police brutality and make people aware of them. I'm not a gatekeeper or a person who can change things large-scale. But, grassroots change has to build somewhere.

The country needs a wholesale overhaul of policing. As for this thread being 'tedious,' this is a collection of items that will prove useful when this issue finally comes to a head, which it will.

Nobody is mad at you. Your opinion isn't tedious but rather your inane drive by posting of youtube clips. Acting like a bot isn't going to advance any noble social agendas. more often than not we actually agree on social issues and this is no exception. I don't disagree with a single thing you've posted above but thank goodness you actually posted something worth reading on this issue.

While I don't disagree with your post, the final paragraph is somewhat ridiculous, as it appears your goal here with this thread is to put together an archive of social injustice which will serve as some sort of evidentiary trove during future policy making sessions? I doubt you meant to come across that way but that's how it reads. Nobody reads this stuff here but us. stop being so melodramatic. You aren't the first person to bemoan police brutality. This issue has been a hot button issue for decades. It isn't "coming to a head."

ps im picking BYU over Uconn despite the suspensions. You?

[wuapinmon]

Nobody is mad at you. Your opinion isn't tedious but rather your inane drive by posting of youtube clips. Acting like a bot isn't going to advance any noble social agendas. more often than not we actually agree on social issues and this is no exception. I don't disagree with a single thing you've posted above but thank goodness you actually posted something worth reading on this issue.

While I don't disagree with your post, the final paragraph is somewhat ridiculous, as it appears your goal here with this thread is to put together an archive of social injustice which will serve as some sort of evidentiary trove during future policy making sessions? I doubt you meant to come across that way but that's how it reads. Nobody reads this stuff here but us. stop being so melodramatic. You aren't the first person to bemoan police brutality. This issue has been a hot button issue for decades. It isn't "coming to a head."

ps im picking BYU over Uconn despite the suspensions. You?

People don't respond anymore to what I have to say. Why waste time writing something with no feedback. At least a drive-by will sometimes generate discussion. I'm picking BYU vs UCONN because Yankees.

[LA Ute]

This is an interesting piece and relevant to your topic.

A Spotter's Guide To Military-Grade Gear Now Being Used By Police

This trend worries me. I'd like to know what the LE people say to justify it.

[wuapinmon]

This is an interesting piece and relevant to your topic.

A Spotter's Guide To Military-Grade Gear Now Being Used By Police

This trend worries me. I'd like to know what the LE people say to justify it.

Here's some relevant US law.

The Posse Comitatus Act

Sec. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress ; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section and any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment

The text of the relevant legislation is as follows:
18 U.S.C. § 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatusWhoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.Also notable is the following provision within Title 10 of the United States Code (which concerns generally the organization and regulation of the armed forces and Department of Defense):
10 U.S.C. § 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnelThe Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/110/hr4986/text

EC. 1068. REPEAL OF PROVISIONS IN SECTION 1076 OF PUBLIC LAW 109-364 RELATING TO USE OF ARMED FORCES IN MAJOR PUBLIC EMERGENCIES.

• (a) Interference With State and Federal Laws-
  
  • (1) IN GENERAL- Section 333 of title 10, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`Sec. 333. Interference with State and Federal law

• `The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it--
  
  • `(1) so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
    `(2) opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
  
  In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.'.
  
  • (2) PROCLAMATION TO DISPERSE- Section 334 of such title is amended by striking `or those obstructing the enforcement of the laws' after `insurgents'.
    (3) HEADING AMENDMENT- The heading of chapter 15 of such title is amended to read as follows:

So, the federal government cannot send in the troops to police unless there's one of the circumstances listed above, but they can give the state and local police the equipment, uniforms, weapons, and vehicles to make them almost (I stress almost because cops don't necessarily have the training for organized large-scale combat that actual troops have) capable of combat with a heavily-armed populace.

This is the kind of stuff liberals and conservatives should join together to stop. Conservatives should be up in arms about the growth of this part of local government when we're at the bottom of violent crime statistics during the last 50 years. Conservatives should be clamoring for the 2nd Amendment right to arm themselves with weapons capable of fighting any enemy equipped as well as some police departments. Liberals should be asking why cops need armored personnel carriers, camo fatigues, and freaking grenade launchers in middle America. Anyone remember the tank the LAPD had in Dragnet with Tom Hanks and Akyroyd that had a "Have a Nice Day" sign attached to the barrel?

[Bo Diddley]

Ah Posse Comitatus. I remember carrying a loaded M16 on the streets of New Orleans after the hurricanes. This because I was a member of the National Guard, and not on Title 10 federal orders. I guess Title 32 is ok, because I am on Title 32 active duty.

Having worked in one area of LE for a few years, let me say that there are bad eggs wherever you go. It would be good to focus on trying to root out the bad eggs. Police the police. I think making body cameras mandatory on all LE officers would go a long ways to hold them accountable.

As for the militarization of the police, I'm not distressed or even impressed with what they are getting. The fact is America as a people is well armed. Policing is much more dangerous than it used to be. Ferguson today reminds me of some of the areas I walked as a soldier in Iraq. But hey--let's send them in like English Bobbies.

[SCcoug]

We're getting trolled by Egypt now.

Egypt on Tuesday urged U.S. authorities to exercise restraint in dealing with racially charged demonstrations in Ferguson, Missouri - echoing language Washington used to caution Egypt as it cracked down on Islamist protesters last year.
...
The Egyptian Foreign Ministry's statement on the unrest in Ferguson read similarly to one issued by U.S. President Barack Obama's administration in July 2013, when the White House "urged security forces to exercise maximum restraint and caution" in dealing with demonstrations by Mursi supporters.

The ministry added it was "closely following the escalation of protests" in Ferguson, unleashed by the fatal shooting of an unarmed black teenager by a white policeman on Aug. 9.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GJ0Z420140819

[Moliere]

We're getting trolled by Egypt now.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GJ0Z420140819

[CardiacCoug]

Call me crazy but I would give the police officer the benefit of the doubt in the Ferguson thing. If his story can't be contradicted by hard evidence then I think he should be cleared of any wrongdoing.

I'm hearing about the "eyewitness" accounts that the teenager was surrendering -- call me crazy but I would totally discount the eyewitness accounts unless they are extraordinarily compelling. People here talked about this book:

http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Not-So.../dp/1592407366

and it really provides very compelling arguments for how totally unreliable eyewitness testimony is.

That said, I do think police officers should always have bodycams and/or dashcams running for any interaction with the public -- mainly for their own protection/exoneration.

[wuapinmon]

That said, I do think police officers should always have bodycams and/or dashcams running for any interaction with the public -- mainly for their own protection/exoneration.

I agree completely for the reason you've stated. If this officer has on a body camera, we'd know exactly what went down. The ACLU is pushing for this. Here's their position paper. https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/po...ed_cameras.pdf It's the best proposal for discussion I've seen on this issue. Hopefully it'll gain ground now. Citizens should begin demanding it.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with wally. Waste water engineering a a modern-day miracle.

[Uncle Ted]

I agree with wally. Waste water engineering a a modern-day miracle.

West Texans agree as well... They love their waste water:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/toilet-t...a-falls-texas/

[imanihonjin]

I agree completely for the reason you've stated. If this officer has on a body camera, we'd know exactly what went down. The ACLU is pushing for this. Here's their position paper. https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/po...ed_cameras.pdf It's the best proposal for discussion I've seen on this issue. Hopefully it'll gain ground now. Citizens should begin demanding it.

I really don't understand why this isn't being done already. What good argument could be made against it, other than cost (which seems negligible when comparing it to the amount that could be saved by reducing the costs of litigation).

[Jeff Lebowski]

West Texans agree as well... They love their waste water:

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/toilet-t...a-falls-texas/

Yikes.

Still, the city's reservoirs are on a trajectory to run dry by August 2016, according to the Texas Water Development Board. The Wichita Falls area needs drinking water for about 150,000 people, and supplies from local reservoirs have plummeted from nearly 90 percent capacity before the drought began in late 2010 to about 20 percent capacity in late June.

"We can't conserve our way out of this," Leiker said.

[imanihonjin]

Interesting that the Ferguson situation gets all the media attention yet a similar officer shooting an unarmed young man occurred in SLC two days after Ferguson but nothing has been mentioned in the national media. The only real difference, from what little details we have regarding either situation, is the race of the officer and the young men are reversed.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-coverage-of-/

[byu71]

Did anyone watch CNN last night where they interviewed the lawyer of someone who said he has the gun shots recorded.

It sounded to me like 11 shots There also was pauses in the shooting. CNN and the guests pointed both items out over and over. CNN did do their discaimor that it wasn't their recording and can't comment on it's authenticity, then went on and on about this being huge evidence against the policeman.

A couple of things that were odd to me. The guy was doing some kind of verbal internet chat. The shots were very loud and clear in the background, but the fellow didn't even hesitate while talking. Also, the only thing he has on tape is the 12 seconds where the shots are being fired. I guess neither of those things were odd to CNN as they didn't bring up either.

Too bad the tape was only 12 seconds. If longer we might have heard the exchange between the officer and the young man prior to the shooting.