Voter ID Question

[LVAllen]

Especially not if they are democrats, amirite?

Did you have red herring for breakfast or something?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Did you have red herring for breakfast or something?

??

This discussion led me to a deep dive on the voter ID debate. Lots of websites (think tanks, advocacy groups, etc) out there claiming that up to 11% of US voters will be disenfranchised by proposed voter ID laws, including the poor, minorities, the elderly, and students. Many state either implicitly or explicitly that people promoting voter id are inherently racist, as Frank has clearly implied here.

Given that context, I was quite surprised just how broadly voter ID is supported in the US. The recent CNN poll shows 83% support. Can you name me a single other issue that enjoys 83% support? I can't think of one. And 71% of democrats support voter ID. Either democrats are just as racist as republicans, or we are being fed a lie about the motivation and support for voter ID.

FWIW, I think these groups grossly overstate the potential impact of voter id laws. I think the true number of people ultimately impacted would be tiny. Apparently, most Americans agree with that sentiment.

[YOhio]

??

This discussion led me to a deep dive on the voter ID debate. Lots of websites (think tanks, advocacy groups, etc) out there claiming that up to 11% of US voters will be disenfranchised by proposed voter ID laws, including the poor, minorities, the elderly, and students. Many state either implicitly or explicitly that people promoting voter id are inherently racist, as Frank has clearly implied here.

Given that context, I was quite surprised just how broadly voter ID is supported in the US. The recent CNN poll shows 83% support. Can you name me a single other issue that enjoys 83% support? I can't think of one. And 71% of democrats support voter ID. Either democrats are just as racist as republicans, or we are being fed a lie about the motivation and support for voter ID.

FWIW, I think these groups grossly overstate the potential impact of voter id laws. I think the true number of people ultimately impacted would be tiny. Apparently, most Americans agree with that sentiment.

Did you consider access to Kinkos?

Embedded Tweet

[frank ryan]

Especially not if they are democrats, amirite?

What the hell is your issue man? You are insisting my post means something it doesn't.

Ive not said and I don't believe that everyone who supports voter ID is racist. So drop that.


I think the architects that created the alarm around voter ID and try to freak everyone out about fraud that isn't really happening from illegal immigrants are racist.

And yes it will negatively impact Democratic voters more than others and I think that's the real intent. I'm not sure why anyone attributes rational or ethical decision to MAGA at this point.

Do you not think Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon are racist?

[Jeff Lebowski]

What the hell is your issue man? You are insisting my post means something it doesn't.

Ive not said and I don't believe that everyone who supports voter ID is racist. So drop that.


I think the architects that created the alarm around voter ID and try to freak everyone out about fraud that isn't really happening from illegal immigrants are racist.

And yes it will negatively impact Democratic voters more than others and I think that's the real intent. I'm not sure why anyone attributes rational or ethical decision to MAGA at this point.

Do you not think Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon are racist?

Frank, you are a very fragile person. My response was meant as a light-hearted comeback. I will try not to respond to you as much going forward.

[dabrockster]

What the hell is your issue man? You are insisting my post means something it doesn't.

Ive not said and I don't believe that everyone who supports voter ID is racist. So drop that.


I think the architects that created the alarm around voter ID and try to freak everyone out about fraud that isn't really happening from illegal immigrants are racist.

And yes it will negatively impact Democratic voters more than others and I think that's the real intent. I'm not sure why anyone attributes rational or ethical decision to MAGA at this point.

Do you not think Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon are racist?

I think JL has uncovered your reverse racist bullshit and called you out on it.. The question, if the Dems support it and “created” it, would you still blow your chicken little horn that is racist? But every policy that is Trump adjacent is racist even when GOP and Dems all support it al why the disdain?

The reality is the groups you so quickly point to, never vote.

[frank ryan]

Frank, you are a very fragile person. My response was meant as a light-hearted comeback. I will try not to respond to you as much going forward.

Jeff, I actually don't think I'm fragile. I think I'm pretty resilient but you repeatedly ignored the point I was trying to make. It gets frustrating after a while. I couldn't read that as light hearted.

[PaloAltoCougar]

??

This discussion led me to a deep dive on the voter ID debate. Lots of websites (think tanks, advocacy groups, etc) out there claiming that up to 11% of US voters will be disenfranchised by proposed voter ID laws, including the poor, minorities, the elderly, and students. Many state either implicitly or explicitly that people promoting voter id are inherently racist, as Frank has clearly implied here.

Given that context, I was quite surprised just how broadly voter ID is supported in the US. The recent CNN poll shows 83% support. Can you name me a single other issue that enjoys 83% support? I can't think of one. And 71% of democrats support voter ID. Either democrats are just as racist as republicans, or we are being fed a lie about the motivation and support for voter ID.

FWIW, I think these groups grossly overstate the potential impact of voter id laws. I think the true number of people ultimately impacted would be tiny. Apparently, most Americans agree with that sentiment.

I assume you looked at fairly reasonable, nonpartisan sites like The Brennan Center for Justice, League of Women Voters. etc. i agree the effect of a voter i.d. requirement would be small. But that's equally true for the problem voter i.d. seeks to address. So far as I'm aware, the number of ineligible or unqualified voters is negligibly small--very likely smaller than the number of otherwise eligible voters who would be excluded.

I'm repeating myself, but throughout our history the number of otherwise qualified voters who have been wrongfully excluded is vastly larger than the number of improper votes case. So my default setting is to oppose unnecessary suppression.

Reasonable minds can differ on this. I have rabid leftists and anarchists on my side; you have bigots and white nationalists on yours. Obviously most who may weigh in on the issue are neither.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I assume you looked at fairly reasonable, nonpartisan sites like The Brennan Center for Justice, League of Women Voters. etc. i agree the effect of a voter i.d. requirement would be small. But that's equally true for the problem voter i.d. seeks to address. So far as I'm aware, the number of ineligible or unqualified voters is negligibly small--very likely smaller than the number of otherwise eligible voters who would be excluded.

I'm repeating myself, but throughout our history the number of otherwise qualified voters who have been wrongfully excluded is vastly larger than the number of improper votes case. So my default setting is to oppose unnecessary suppression.

Reasonable minds can differ on this. I have rabid leftists and anarchists on my side; you have bigots and white nationalists on yours. Obviously most who may weigh in on the issue are neither.

You are reading too much into my responses. I agree that there is very little fraud with the current system - I have never claimed that there is. I personally would be perfectly happy if the current system continued. However, public sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of voter ID so the democratic party has yet again backed the losing horse on a current issue. It is exasperating.

[PaloAltoCougar]

You are reading too much into my responses. I agree that there is very little fraud with the current system - I have never claimed that there is. I personally would be perfectly happy if the current system continued. However, public sentiment is overwhelmingly in favor of voter ID so the democratic party has yet again backed the losing horse on a current issue. It is exasperating.

Ah, got it. I thought you were taking the position that substantial majority support justifies any proposal.

[Clark Addison]

Did you consider access to Kinkos?

Embedded Tweet

Every time I see her talk I get very mad at Joe Biden.

[Moliere]

I think I’ve given my voter ID position before, but I’ll summarize it here. I’m of the opinion that the place to require ID and prove citizenship is when people register to vote. That gives people a lot of time get everything in order and get the registration done. clean voter rolls is where it’s important. If we had clean voter rolls then id be fine with no ID required to cast a vote. You’d just need to show up (unless you vote by mail) and declare your name an if you are on the registry you get a ballot. If someone votes in your name before you vote, you can cast a provisional ballot and get it figured out later. You’d have to have a way to make sure people only vote once, which is typically done by marking a finger with ink. It’s not perfect but it puts the responsibility of ID on a place that isn’t as subject to time constraints.

Id also be in favor of requiring IDs and documents needed to get them to be given free of charge.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Every time I see her talk I get very mad at Joe Biden.

If only Joe had listened to his better advisers and ignored Jill, Hunter, and a few self-serving others, and had announced he was stepping aside after one term, we'd have a different president and I doubt very much it would be Kamala. And Joe's legacy would be that of a fair-to-middling caretaker president who rid us of Trump. Instead, he'll be remembered forever for his final debate performance.

[frank ryan]

I think I’ve given my voter ID position before, but I’ll summarize it here. I’m of the opinion that the place to require ID and prove citizenship is when people register to vote. That gives people a lot of time get everything in order and get the registration done. clean voter rolls is where it’s important. If we had clean voter rolls then id be fine with no ID required to cast a vote. You’d just need to show up (unless you vote by mail) and declare your name an if you are on the registry you get a ballot. If someone votes in your name before you vote, you can cast a provisional ballot and get it figured out later. You’d have to have a way to make sure people only vote once, which is typically done by marking a finger with ink. It’s not perfect but it puts the responsibility of ID on a place that isn’t as subject to time constraints.

Id also be in favor of requiring IDs and documents needed to get them to be given free of charge.

This sounds pretty reasonable to me.

[chrisrenrut]

Ah, got it. I thought you were taking the position that substantial majority support justifies any proposal.

It did come across that way.

How many of the 83% or whatever understand that the SAVE Act in its current form will do far more to suppress legitimate voters than protect against illegitimate voters? Would you expect anything less from Senator Lee or Rep. Chip Roy?

https://bipartisanpolicy.org/article...-the-save-act/