ICE ICE baby - the immigration thread

[Northwestcoug]

That's quite an extrapolation!

Wait, you didn't have the whole of the nation's immigration policy and constitutional law practice in your head when you posted that? Weird.

[YOhio]

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ICE is going after the Tiny Rascals gang?! That is not ooootay!

[falafel]

Part of my thinking is colored by the alleged crime in question--I'd feel different for other alleged crimes, even if that's intellectually or legally inconsistent. Rightly or wrongly, the alleged forcible rape of a minor lowers the bar for me on constitutional protections. I don't want the guy to skip town before a full trial on the merits. But I expect bail will be set so high that that won't happen, and the detainer issue, at least for now, is moot.

YIKES PAC. Changing the constitutional standard based on the ALLEGED crime? Your law school self would have been incredibly embarrassed by your retired reasoning.

Tae protections are the protections. You don’t get different treatment based on the allegations. If that were true, what would stop Wally from accusing you of abusing 1000s of Ute fans over there years (verbally and intellectually, to be certain).

[falafel]

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ICE is going after the Tiny Rascals gang?! That is not ooootay!

Why is ICE advertising its arrests? This is amateur-level shit meant to distract from the many
illegal or unjustified actions it has taken over the last year. Just do your job responsibly and according to the law and you wouldn’t have to advertise you doing your job to increase your public support.

[PaloAltoCougar]

YIKES PAC. Changing the constitutional standard based on the ALLEGED crime? Your law school self would have been incredibly embarrassed by your retired reasoning.

Tae protections are the protections. You don’t get different treatment based on the allegations. If that were true, what would stop Wally from accusing you of abusing 1000s of Ute fans over there years (verbally and intellectually, to be certain).

Having been attentive occasionally in Con Law, I understand the vital importance of our constitutional protections, even tae ones , even if those being protected are unworthy of the privilege. But hypothetically speaking, if an otherwise airtight case against the defendant were tossed because a cop screwed up the evidentiary chain of custody I wouldn't fret if the guy got the boot. Channeling my inner Walt Whitman...Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes.

[chrisrenrut]

Why is ICE advertising its arrests? This is amateur-level shit meant to distract from the many
illegal or unjustified actions it has taken over the last year. Just do your job responsibly and according to the law and you wouldn’t have to advertise you doing your job to increase your public support.

Never fear. As part of DHS's compromises to end the funding shutdown, they are agreeing to, among other things, stop detaining and deporting US citizens.

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[frank ryan]

Never fear. As part of DHS's compromises to end the funding shutdown, they are agreeing to, among other things, stop detaining and deporting US citizens.

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That's sickening that it is a point of negotiation.

[Northwestcoug]

Never fear. As part of DHS's compromises to end the funding shutdown, they are agreeing to, among other things, stop detaining and deporting US citizens.

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Wow I feel stupid. I could have sworn that was already against the law.

[YOhio]

YIKES PAC. Changing the constitutional standard based on the ALLEGED crime? Your law school self would have been incredibly embarrassed by your retired reasoning.

Tae protections are the protections. You don’t get different treatment based on the allegations. If that were true, what would stop Wally from accusing you of abusing 1000s of Ute fans over there years (verbally and intellectually, to be certain).

I appreciate your commitment to constitutional protections. I agree with you as it relates to the criminal charge. If it proceeds to trial then the accused should receive every constitutional protection. But it doesn't have to proceed to trial. ICE can deport him and we don't have to worry about him anymore. I come from it from a less ideological and more utilitarian POV. It's legal, faster, cheaper, and easier. Due process is still granted through removal proceedings and there's no erosion of core rights.
Prosecutors at every level do this all the time. They overcharge so they can get a plea without going to trial. They use every available lever to avoid the uncertainty and resource expenditure of a trial while still accomplishing their goal of removing an individual from society. I don't think using deportation to accomplish the same goal is inherently less moral. It's certainly more efficient and frees up finite public resources at the local level.

[Northwestcoug]

I appreciate your commitment to constitutional protections. I agree with you as it relates to the criminal charge. If it proceeds to trial then the accused should receive every constitutional protection. But it doesn't have to proceed to trial. ICE can deport him and we don't have to worry about him anymore. I come from it from a less ideological and more utilitarian POV. It's legal, faster, cheaper, and easier. Due process is still granted through removal proceedings and there's no erosion of core rights.
Prosecutors at every level do this all the time. They overcharge so they can get a plea without going to trial. They use every available lever to avoid the uncertainty and resource expenditure of a trial while still accomplishing their goal of removing an individual from society. I don't think using deportation to accomplish the same goal is inherently less moral. It's certainly more efficient and frees up finite public resources at the local level.

Conceptually this sounds right to me and it is a good analogy. But the morality of prosecution and immigration enforcement only stays equivalent when there are similar guardrails in place to deter misconduct. The Trump administration has done everything it can to break those guardrails down, in an effort to deport as many immigrants as possible, and as quickly as possible.

[frank ryan]

I appreciate your commitment to constitutional protections. I agree with you as it relates to the criminal charge. If it proceeds to trial then the accused should receive every constitutional protection. But it doesn't have to proceed to trial. ICE can deport him and we don't have to worry about him anymore. I come from it from a less ideological and more utilitarian POV. It's legal, faster, cheaper, and easier. Due process is still granted through removal proceedings and there's no erosion of core rights.
Prosecutors at every level do this all the time. They overcharge so they can get a plea without going to trial. They use every available lever to avoid the uncertainty and resource expenditure of a trial while still accomplishing their goal of removing an individual from society. I don't think using deportation to accomplish the same goal is inherently less moral. It's certainly more efficient and frees up finite public resources at the local level.

There is clearly not much of a savings with the way MAGA is using ICE. Not to mention so many of their legal actions end up burdening other agencies. The should focus on their original goals.

[frank ryan]

Damn, Rand Paul went at Markwayne Mullen.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That’s amazing.

[dabrockster]

This feels like a schoolyard fight on public TV. Completely focused on Paul’s personal issues with him more than anything. Does it have relevancy? Yes, but I am not sure it hit the way he wanted nor does it change the fact he is going to be approved.

I do wish he would’ve focused more on why he approved the welfare funding as that is a big issue considering the agency he is going to run now. I think focusing on the standing up and picking a fight with a person testifying would be a better option to focus on his character and anger issues.

[Jeff Lebowski]

"Paul's personal issues". Lol.

It speaks to the nominee's character. Perfectly relevant.