ICE ICE baby - the immigration thread

[Donuthole]

HAHAHAHAHAHA! I'm not the one out there acting like an ingrate, spitting at federal agents, and then trashing their vehicles.

Nope. You're just in here acting like an ingrate. But we've grown to expect it, so Maximus is wrong--it's not beneath you.

[dabrockster]

Although we don't see what the officers did to Pretti before he spat and kicked a taillight, at least those horrific acts support the Administration's (l.e., Trump, Vance, Noem, and Miller--Pee Wee German per Andy Borowitz) assurance that Pretti was a murderous assassin intent on murdering as many officers as possible. Why use the gun you're carrying when you can hock a loogie? Thank heavens the officers put ten (?) bullets in him before his spitting and kicking rampage could do further damage.

Yes. Let's minimize the levels of unlawful actions to kicking a taillight and hocking up loogies. Maybe the laws should create such tiers. wait. They probably do, and this would still fall under that and cause an arrest.

I get the facetiousness in relation to how Noem and those ilk's labeled him as a terrorists but lets not minimize the actions as nothing..

[Shaka]

Nope. You're just in here acting like an ingrate. But we've grown to expect it, so Maximus is wrong--it's not beneath you.

I'm good with you guys thinking that Dhole. You don't really play nice with folks who hold informed opinions that conflict with your own. Pretti wasn't standing on the sidewalk holding a sign, being peaceable. His behavior is a reflection of his character. Is it possible that he, along with being a nurse, had a dark side?

What is it you lawyers say? "Goes to character, your honor," or something like that. At least the ones on TV say that.

[Northwestcoug]

I'm good with you guys thinking that Dhole. You don't really play nice with folks who hold informed opinions that conflict with your own. Pretti wasn't standing on the sidewalk holding a sign, being peaceable. His behavior is a reflection of his character. Is it possible that he, along with being a nurse, had a dark side?

What is it you lawyers say? "Goes to character, your honor," or something like that. At least the ones on TV say that.

Is anyone on here even arguing that??? It seems you're obsessed about pushing back on something no one here nor most people are arguing.

At the end of the day, even if a 2 minute video of him spitting and kicking a taillight is more of a reflection of his character than his career and the opinion of those who knew him best, he still didn't deserve to die.

I have a dark side. My kids knew how much they could try my patience. They knew that because when they exhausted it I regrettably lost it. If there's ever a video of that at my final day I hope it doesn't weigh too heavily on the judgment of my character.

[myboynoah]

I'm good with you guys thinking that Dhole. You don't really play nice with folks who hold informed opinions that conflict with your own. Pretti wasn't standing on the sidewalk holding a sign, being peaceable. His behavior is a reflection of his character. Is it possible that he, along with being a nurse, had a dark side?

What is it you lawyers say? "Goes to character, your honor," or something like that. At least the ones on TV say that.

In other words, he was human. Yet the preponderance of evidence of his life is that he was a compassionate care giver, a dedicated friend, and person committed to his ideals. I would hate for anyone's life's work to be reduced to a moment where they weren't the best they could be and the only casualty was the tail light of a car being used by masked goons to intimidate and seize my neighbors. And it would certainly be a tragedy for anyone to use that instance as some kind of cover for my being shot in the back several times by the same kind of masked goons while I laid face down in the street.

Yes, Alex Pretti was human, as are we all. Let's not despoil the sacrifice of his life (which we all have seen) and forget the abounding good he did in the world because he kicked out a tail light.

[Shaka]

Is anyone on here even arguing that??? It seems you're obsessed about pushing back on something no one here nor most people are arguing.

At the end of the day, even if a 2 minute video of him spitting and kicking a taillight is more of a reflection of his character than his career and the opinion of those who knew him best, he still didn't deserve to die.

I have a dark side. My kids knew how much they could try my patience. They knew that because when they exhausted it I regrettably lost it. If there's ever a video of that at my final day I hope it doesn't weigh too heavily on the judgment of my character.

Have you ever let your darker impulses push you into direct, non-peaceful clashes with federal agents? Have those impulses drawn you into organized resistance groups that deliberately seek out confrontations with them?

Right now in Minnesota, plenty of people—whether long-time residents (and plenty of imported folks), are standing up through peaceful protests. That kind of determined, non-violent resistance is making an impact. At the same time, a smaller but vocal segment has gone further, organizing in ways that cross into aggression, blockades, or outright confrontations with federal officers.

Many of those folks probably have solid careers, families, and histories of doing good in their communities. But intense political rage, call it Trump Derangement Syndrome or whatever you want, can twist even reasonable people into making reckless, self-destructive choices. I believe Pretti is one of these people, and the video of his two run-ins with the feds, provides the examples. His choosing to carry his gun while engaging in reckless behavior exacerbated the situation.

I'll let Elizabeth Warren make my point.

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[Northwestcoug]

Have you ever let your darker impulses push you into direct, non-peaceful clashes with federal agents? Have those impulses drawn you into organized resistance groups that deliberately seek out confrontations with them?

Nope. But I certainly might if ICE had done the things in my community it has done in Minneapolis. And I doubt you would feel peaceful and non-confrontational if they did the same to yours either.

[Shaka]

Nope. But I certainly might if ICE had done the things in my community it has done in Minneapolis. And I doubt you would feel peaceful and non-confrontational if they did the same to yours either.

If I thought what they were doing was wrong, I'd consider peacefully protesting. I'd never engage physically with a federal officer.

[bluegoose]

Have you ever let your darker impulses push you into direct, non-peaceful clashes with federal agents? Have those impulses drawn you into organized resistance groups that deliberately seek out confrontations with them?

Not just federal agents, but federal agents that he felt were doing an amoral, unethical, and illegal task, inflicting violence on your friends and neighbors. If you felt similarly, and were told by government officials to shut up and stay out of the way, I doubt you would be satisfied to stand on the curb and hold a sign, or to write a strongly worded message to your congressman, which will almost certainly not make it passed a low level aide.

[Shaka]

Not just federal agents, but federal agents that he felt were doing an amoral, unethical, and illegal task, inflicting violence on your friends and neighbors. If you felt similarly, and were told by government officials to shut up and stay out of the way, I doubt you would be satisfied to stand on the curb and hold a sign, or to write a strongly worded message to your congressman, which will almost certainly not make it passed a low level aide.

I don't mind confrontation. However, I'd never engage a fed or any other kind of law enforcement, especially while carrying a weapon. That's next-level stupidity.

[bluegoose]

I don't mind confrontation. However, I'd never engage a fed or any other kind of law enforcement, especially while carrying a weapon. That's next-level stupidity.

So you'd hold a clever sign on the curb or craft a strongly worded letter to your senator.

I'm not saying its not next level stupidity. But if someone is passionate about a cause, and feels like their voice is not, and will not, be heard, its not hard to see why they feel the next best thing to do is to try to protect a lady who is being assaulted on the street by masked federal officers.

[PaloAltoCougar]

Yes. Let's minimize the levels of unlawful actions to kicking a taillight and hocking up loogies. Maybe the laws should create such tiers. wait. They probably do, and this would still fall under that and cause an arrest.

I get the facetiousness in relation to how Noem and those ilk's labeled him as a terrorists but lets not minimize the actions as nothing..

Come on. We're all flogging a dead horse (or ICU nurse) as this point., but no one is suggesting that destroying property or assaulting a federal officer with a loogie is nothing. What's immensely irritating and wrong is the submission of such misconduct as exculpation or mitigation for firing ten bullets into the wrongdoer. They aren't remotely similar kinds of wrongdoing.

Tolerance for minor transgressions in the service of a cause is greater among liberals than conservatives (Law and order!), not that either side is absolutely right or wrong. I find myself increasingly more sympathetic to tolerance, though. As Harvard professor, Pulitzer Prize winner and Relief Society President Laurel Thatcher Ulrich observed, "Well-behaved women seldom make history."

[Shaka]

So you'd hold a clever sign on the curb or craft a strongly worded letter to your senator.

I'm not saying its not next level stupidity. But if someone is passionate about a cause, and feels like their voice is not, and will not, be heard, its not hard to see why they feel the next best thing to do is to try to protect a lady who is being assaulted on the street by masked federal officers.

Part of being an adult is reigning in your passions or anger and finding constructive methods of enacting change. Sorry, sometimes it's slow. The prisons have plenty of folks who lived average lives until they let the dark side take over.

I think ICE needs some tweaks. I'm not going to act like an idiot and do stupid things to try and get them to see things my way.

[Flystripper]

Alex Pretti was someone who devoted his life to serving veterans. You don’t do that without having a ton of respect for what the military and federal government has done to protect this country and uphold the constitution.

I don’t think it is a dark side to be angry enough to let your emotions to drive your behavior to spitting and kicking. The man is observing the members of his community being needlessly detained without due process through violent means. It’s been a near complete trampling of the constitution and the oath that veterans he served swore when they pledged their life to the service of our nation. I can understand the anger and anger is not necessarily dark. Sometimes it’s righteous and sometimes it is a reflection of someone being willing to stand up for what is right.

Should he have been arrested for spitting and kicking? Yes probably. But I am willing to guess it wouldn’t have changed his opinion or actions a week or so later when he was killed for trying to help protect a woman who was being assaulted because in either case he was motivated a righteous outrage that is shared by a growing majority of this country.

It’s easy to sit back in our nice safe bubbles and say he shouldn’t have done this or shouldn’t have done that, but ultimately it may just be because he was willing to be out there with all of his righteous anger and subsequent death that act as a catalyst for the feds to change course. It shouldn’t have had to come to that but it did.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You guys have amazing stamina for this stuff. I don't know how you do it.