2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Pelado]

Yes, they should have been further out in front of this. They tip their biased hand a bit by not.

However, I think in Biden's case it's a matter of reality imitating fiction. There have been plenty of clips taken out of context, as they point out, which paint him in an unflattering light. It's been going on for over four years now. It's a little like the boy who cried wolf. There were so many cases where Biden's behavior was acceptable in context that when they finally weren't people had stopped paying attention.

That's a good way of describing it.

[Uncle Ted]

Yes, they should have been further out in front of this. They tip their biased hand a bit by not.

However, I think in Biden's case it's a matter of reality imitating fiction. There have been plenty of clips taken out of context, as they point out, which paint him in an unflattering light. It's been going on for over four years now. It's a little like the boy who cried wolf. There were so many cases where Biden's behavior was acceptable in context that when they finally weren't people had stopped paying attention.

Yes, George Clooney, after raising $30m for Grandpa Joe, is no longer buying it anymore...

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He may be taking it too far, however...

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[Northwestcoug]

The op-ed pieces by the NYT and WaPo are a desperate attempt to compensate for their failure to fully investigate this in the first place. This is an all-time journalistic lapse for which they should be held accountable. For heaven's sake, in the weeks leading up to the debate these same people were excoriating conservative outlets for calling attention to Biden's increasingly erratic behavior. Look at this article from the NYT as recently as June 21:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/21/u...ge-videos.html



Now check out how shamelessly they are backpedaling:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/02/u...en-lapses.html



The article highlights the very same things that conservative outlets were reporting, while they were being scolded by the NYT, CNN, MSNBS, WaPo, etc.

As I have said before, at least the WSJ published a big article a few weeks ago using anonymous WH sources saying he is in terrible shape.

https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/...-2024-8ee15246

Yeah sorry not buying it. Before the debate most of those videos of Biden’s lapses were of Ted quality links. The evidence that he was significantly diminished might have been whispered about, but it wasn’t out there enough for the media to pounce on like it is now. Again, we are arguing about a media-wide conspiracy to hide Biden’s true status. There isn’t a difference between your typical WSJ and NYT reporters. Maybe an editorial difference, but if there’s a story that the NYT and WaPo boards were hiding this info then let’s hope sunshine discovers it.

the conspiracy from the WH staff and DNC to keep this underwraps, on the other hand…

[Uncle Ted]

New York is now in play for the GOP'ers?

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[Pelado]

Yes, George Clooney, after raising $30m for Grandpa Joe, is no longer buying it anymore...

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He may be taking it too far, however...

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Sorry, everyone, but that's funny.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah sorry not buying it. Before the debate most of those videos of Biden’s lapses were of Ted quality links. The evidence that he was significantly diminished might have been whispered about, but it wasn’t out there enough for the media to pounce on like it is now. Again, we are arguing about a media-wide conspiracy to hide Biden’s true status. There isn’t a difference between your typical WSJ and NYT reporters. Maybe an editorial difference, but if there’s a story that the NYT and WaPo boards were hiding this info then let’s hope sunshine discovers it.

the conspiracy from the WH staff and DNC to keep this underwraps, on the other hand…

What are you not buying? I am not arguing that it was a grand conspiracy by the NYT and WaPo to withhold known information, but they completely dropped the ball on what was going on. Why is that? Are they shitty journalists? (I don't think so). Were they reluctant to investigate something that went against their biases? More likely. Either way, please don't pretend that the information wasn't out there. The WSJ reporters found it easily enough.

And I am really surprised that you and Bo are defending them for going after the "cheap fakes" videos. Good grief, the overall impression/conclusion given by the videos was spot on, as the NYT is now admitting. They were criticizing the exact kind of investigation they should have been doing themselves.

[USUC]

Yeah sorry not buying it. Before the debate most of those videos of Biden’s lapses were of Ted quality links. The evidence that he was significantly diminished might have been whispered about, but it wasn’t out there enough for the media to pounce on like it is now. Again, we are arguing about a media-wide conspiracy to hide Biden’s true status. There isn’t a difference between your typical WSJ and NYT reporters. Maybe an editorial difference, but if there’s a story that the NYT and WaPo boards were hiding this info then let’s hope sunshine discovers it.

the conspiracy from the WH staff and DNC to keep this underwraps, on the other hand…

You will eventually need to come to terms with the legacy media's complicity in this. There is no conspiracy, it's all in plain site for all to see. The ideological bent, the bubbles these reporters come from, and the journalsim schools they have graduated from are explicitly progressive. Many of the younger journalists are ideological activists. Just look at the platforms of their unions.

CNN and MSNBC have been landing spots for Biden officials once they leave their positions. They have all lied.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yes, they should have been further out in front of this. They tip their biased hand a bit by not.

However, I think in Biden's case it's a matter of reality imitating fiction. There have been plenty of clips taken out of context, as they point out, which paint him in an unflattering light. It's been going on for over four years now. It's a little like the boy who cried wolf. There were so many cases where Biden's behavior was acceptable in context that when they finally weren't people had stopped paying attention.

Oh boy. You are putting lipstick on a pig.

[SteelBlue]

This is finally snowballing and should be done by the weekend. I’ve always said I’d vote for a ham sandwich over Trump and that hasn’t changed. It would be nice though if it weren’t going to be almost literal.

[Maximus]

This is finally snowballing and should be done by the weekend. I’ve always said I’d vote for a ham sandwich over Trump and that hasn’t changed. It would be nice though if it weren’t going to be almost literal.

You have a lot of faith when no actual advisor to Biden is telling him this

[Northwestcoug]

What are you not buying? I am not arguing that it was a grand conspiracy by the NYT and WaPo to withhold known information, but they completely dropped the ball on what was going on. Why is that? Are they shitty journalists? (I don't think so). Were they reluctant to investigate something that went against their biases? More likely. Either way, please don't pretend that the information wasn't out there. The WSJ reporters found it easily enough.

And I am really surprised that you and Bo are defending them for going after the "cheap fakes" videos. Good grief, the overall impression/conclusion given by the videos was spot on, as the NYT is now admitting. They were criticizing the exact kind of investigation they should have been doing themselves.

my initial post was in response to goatnapper’s ’collusion with the political left’ post about the media. Responsible media is not colluding with the left. in reading your response again, I can’t argue too strongly about anything you said, except for the ‘cheap fakes’ videos part. A good proportion of those were deceptively edited. But otherwise overall agree that the media overall missed an important story until now.

You will eventually need to come to terms with the legacy media's complicity in this. There is no conspiracy, it's all in plain site for all to see. The ideological bent, the bubbles these reporters come from, and the journalsim schools they have graduated from are explicitly progressive. Many of the younger journalists are ideological activists. Just look at the platforms of their unions.

CNN and MSNBC have been landing spots for Biden officials once they leave their positions. They have all lied.

can’t really argue strongly against anything here either. I’m not blind; I know the majority of journalism is ideologically left and the ‘profession’ is not free from human emotion or power structures. But when the terms collusion and lied get thrown around, I’ll react against that. I would describe it more along the lines of when the media get it right they are effective at ignoring their biases, and when they get it wrong they fall prey to those biases.

[SteelBlue]

You have a lot of faith when no actual advisor to Biden is telling him this

They aren’t the ones paying the bills.

[frank ryan]

my initial post was in response to goatnapper’s ’collusion with the political left’ post about the media. Responsible media is not colluding with the left. in reading your response again, I can’t argue too strongly about anything you said, except for the ‘cheap fakes’ videos part. A good proportion of those were deceptively edited. But otherwise overall agree that the media overall missed an important story until now.





can’t really argue strongly against anything here either. I’m not blind; I know the majority of journalism is ideologically left and the ‘profession’ is not free from human emotion or power structures. But when the terms collusion and lied get thrown around, I’ll react against that. I would describe it more along the lines of when the media get it right they are effective at ignoring their biases, and when they get it wrong they fall prey to those biases.

There have been some surveys throughout the years regarding how Fox News in particular (not i's worse, more extreme cousins like The Blaze, OAN, Newsmax etc) can have their awareness of issues impacted negatively by Fox in contrast to other outlets, and even compared to people who take in little news. I haven't read that in a while, but there were a few different surveys.

Fox News came from an idea that was a reaction to Roger Ailes being upset that the media liked a right-wing propaganda outlet to come to Nixon's rescue. That's how got it. Murdoch has always been a scoundrel. That's what started it all.

Avoiding or ignoring coverage of the seriousness of Biden's health is awful journalism, and may involve some journalistic malpractice (not legally). But reaching for reflexive equivalency is unhelpful because it's inaccurate. Fox had to shell out nearly a billion dollars for some dark malicious libel ,not just trashing the reputation of some software elections company by knowingly slandering the sanctity or our elections and enabling Cheeto parts-grabber. It is not a new outlet falling vicicim to bias and risking its credibility; it's in practicality not a news network. It's dumb cousins never were, and MSNBC is increasing following suit. Its real journalists have all fled, including Shep Smith, and Chris Wallace.

The NY Time and whomever else screwed up with Biden coverage - Fox News never bothered to ever try and not do that kind of stuff on behalf of Trump.

[USUC]

There have been some surveys throughout the years regarding how Fox News in particular (not i's worse, more extreme cousins like The Blaze, OAN, Newsmax etc) can have their awareness of issues impacted negatively by Fox in contrast to other outlets, and even compared to people who take in little news. I haven't read that in a while, but there were a few different surveys.

Fox News came from an idea that was a reaction to Roger Ailes being upset that the media liked a right-wing propaganda outlet to come to Nixon's rescue. That's how got it. Murdoch has always been a scoundrel. That's what started it all.

Avoiding or ignoring coverage of the seriousness of Biden's health is awful journalism, and may involve some journalistic malpractice (not legally). But reaching for reflexive equivalency is unhelpful because it's inaccurate. Fox had to shell out nearly a billion dollars for some dark malicious libel ,not just trashing the reputation of some software elections company by knowingly slandering the sanctity or our elections and enabling Cheeto parts-grabber. It is not a new outlet falling vicicim to bias and risking its credibility; it's in practicality not a news network. It's dumb cousins never were, and MSNBC is increasing following suit. Its real journalists have all fled, including Shep Smith, and Chris Wallace.

The NY Time and whomever else screwed up with Biden coverage - Fox News never bothered to ever try and not do that kind of stuff on behalf of Trump.

Are you trying to compare the NYT with Fox news? Fox News has always been openly sympathetic to conservatism. The NYT, WP et al have claimed to hold themselves to a higher standard than cable news. There is great journalism as legacy media outlets but that is unfortunately limited to non political content. But they are now as ideologically captured as cable news.

[frank ryan]

Are you trying to compare the NYT with Fox news? Fox News has always been openly sympathetic to conservatism. The NYT, WP et al have claimed to hold themselves to a higher standard than cable news. There is great journalism as legacy media outlets but that is unfortunately limited to non political content. But they are now as ideologically captured as cable news.

They made no bones about being a counterweight to or-her media, but did put on the "Far and Balanced," farce for a while. They even gave Sean Hannity a pitiful, liberal counterpart before they eventually quit trying.

A new soutlet like WaPo or NYT couldn't really do great coverage in every other section of the paper and just magically be awful at news in general. Reporters are increasing assigned to general areas and less limited to sections. Things aren't so silod that would really make sense. Additionally most people who consume Fox News watch their shows they aren't journalism in long format.

And again, I feel like you are downplaying the serious of the dominion lawsuit. Have you read some of the details? You really should. The Tucker Carlson stuff in particular is interesting.