2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Uncle Ted]

Scott Galloway gave a TED talk on how we are screwing our young... I don't agree with everything he says but a lot of rings true:

No wonder young people are pissed off, demanding stupid things, and killing themselves.

We all need to stop voting for geriatric grandpas/grandmas, and vote for more young libertarians. The GOP'ers and Dems have both sold their souls to the devil. The founding fathers really screwed up by not putting term limits in the constitution.

[Moliere]

Tell me what tax breaks the investors are getting for buying houses with cash.

Uncle Ted’s linked article basically spells them out but suffice it to say that the cost of owning a home as an investor is much lower than as a home owner. I’m not sure how to fix that other than making expenses on residential dwellings non deductible or limit the dedications to those enjoyed by home owners. But good luck with getting that through congress…

[Jeff Lebowski]

Top 6 Breaks And Deductions for real estate investors

Uncle Ted’s linked article basically spells them out but suffice it to say that the cost of owning a home as an investor is much lower than as a home owner. I’m not sure how to fix that other than making expenses on residential dwellings non deductible or limit the dedications to those enjoyed by home owners. But good luck with getting that through congress…

OK, I read the article. You guys would get along great with Bernie and Liz Warren. Down with capitalism!

You can't get rid of legit business deductions. Come on.

Get rid of capital gains (treat as regular income)? OK, Bernie.

The one thing I think we can/should change is depreciation. Makes sense for many assets, but not an appreciating piece of property. Use property tax valuations or something.

But the context of this discussion is rising housing costs. One of the ways to to combat that is create more affordable housing: more apartments, townhomes, condos, high density housing, etc. If you get rid of the things listed in that article, you destroy that very industry. Crazy talk.

[Clark Addison]

Yeah, 7% is not out of the norm for historical mortgage rates. It’s just been outside the norm since 2007 when rates got slashed during the Great Recession and they never recovered fully. House prices are probably inflated and will have to come down or wages will have to go up to fill that gap. The days of 4% mortgage rates are probably gone for a long time.

We have the Economics team from Visa come in and talk to us a couple of times a year. They always do a good job and have a lot of interesting data. They were here last week and talked about mortgage interest rates. No surprise, but the chief economist said "it will be very difficult to get 5% on a mortgage in the foreseeable future". When asked to speculate on what that meant, as far as when rates might get back to that low, he said "Maybe 2030?"

[Bo Diddley]

OK, I read the article. You guys would get along great with Bernie and Liz Warren. Down with capitalism!

You can't get rid of legit business deductions. Come on.

Get rid of capital gains (treat as regular income)? OK, Bernie.

The one thing I think we can/should change is depreciation. Makes sense for many assets, but not an appreciating piece of property. Use property tax valuations or something.

But the context of this discussion is rising housing costs. One of the ways to to combat that is create more affordable housing: more apartments, townhomes, condos, high density housing, etc. If you get rid of the things listed in that article, you destroy that very industry. Crazy talk.

That's what Gov Cox is pushing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That's what Gov Cox is pushing.

It is the only option you have. You can't wave a wand and magically invent more land. It is a finite supply and Utah is the fastest growing state in the US. Not to mention that traditional homes with big lots and grass take up a ton of water that we don't have.

But how does the government cause this to happen? Tax incentives, etc. for developers and investors. I.e., basically the opposite of what Uncle Ted is proposing.

[Bo Diddley]

It is the only option you have. You can't wave a wand and magically invent more land. It is a finite supply and Utah is the fastest growing state in the US. Not to mention that traditional homes with big lots and grass take up a ton of water that we don't have.

But how does the government cause this to happen? Tax incentives, etc. for developers and investors. I.e., basically the opposite of what Uncle Ted is proposing.

I agree it's the best option, but smarter people than me can probably find other options that will help as well.

[Uncle Ted]

OK, I read the article. You guys would get along great with Bernie and Liz Warren. Down with capitalism!

You can't get rid of legit business deductions. Come on.

Get rid of capital gains (treat as regular income)? OK, Bernie.

The one thing I think we can/should change is depreciation. Makes sense for many assets, but not an appreciating piece of property. Use property tax valuations or something.

But the context of this discussion is rising housing costs. One of the ways to to combat that is create more affordable housing: more apartments, townhomes, condos, high density housing, etc. If you get rid of the things listed in that article, you destroy that very industry. Crazy talk.

Yeah, when a municipality starts talking to zone something for high density housing all the old farts (or, AKA, the people that vote) start showing up to the city council meetings with their pick forks and pushing back ("Not in my neighbor!!") and the city council members that want to be reelected cave in. Of course, that is where the state and federal government can help with throwing money at the problem. They can tell the cities if they have so much high density housing they qualify for federal (freshly printed) $$$$.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Yeah, when a municipality starts talking to zone something for high density housing all the old farts (or, AKA, the people that vote) start showing up to the city council meetings with their pick forks and pushing back ("Not in my neighbor!!") and the city council members that want to be reelected cave in. Of course, that is where the state and federal government can help with throwing money at the problem. They can tell the cities if they have so much high density housing they qualify for federal (freshly printed) $$$$.

"Old people bad" is a lazy argument.

[Uncle Ted]

It is the only option you have. You can't wave a wand and magically invent more land. It is a finite supply and Utah is the fastest growing state in the US. Not to mention that traditional homes with big lots and grass take up a ton of water that we don't have.

But how does the government cause this to happen? Tax incentives, etc. for developers and investors. I.e., basically the opposite of what Uncle Ted is proposing.

Utah is mostly federal lands, unlike Texas which is mostly private lands. The federal government could open up some federal land for development. For example, run the NSA with their domestic spying data center out of the state and build some nice high density house on top of that. Besides this would help Utah eliminate its love for coal fired power plants. (Which Grandpa Joe wants to shut down by 2035).

Utah does have a water problem. Given that private citizens own little (if any) of the water that falls out of the sky in Utah maybe they should raise the water rights "tax" and encourage the good people in Utah to get rid of their landscaping and go with rockscapes.

[Uncle Ted]

"Old people bad" is a lazy argument.

Did you even watch that TED video I posted above? He mentioned that up in Vancouver 60% of the cost of building a new home is the permits... The folks that have a home now don't want more traffic, etc.

[Moliere]

OK, I read the article. You guys would get along great with Bernie and Liz Warren. Down with capitalism!

You can't get rid of legit business deductions. Come on.

Get rid of capital gains (treat as regular income)? OK, Bernie.

The one thing I think we can/should change is depreciation. Makes sense for many assets, but not an appreciating piece of property. Use property tax valuations or something.

But the context of this discussion is rising housing costs. One of the ways to to combat that is create more affordable housing: more apartments, townhomes, condos, high density housing, etc. If you get rid of the things listed in that article, you destroy that very industry. Crazy talk.

Hey now, don’t put me in the company of Warren…even though I found out last week that I have a Native American ancestor from the 1700s

Im just saying that the cost of ownership for an investor is much lower. I think a better solution is to make housing costs truly deductible. I’m talking about interest on mortgages, property taxes, HOA fees, etc. Those things are now only deductible over and above the standard deduction. Make them deductible before applying the standard deduction and you’ll more equal footing.

I also agree with Gov Cox (the guy is a very smart politician) that we need more affordable housing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I also agree with Gov Cox (the guy is a very smart politician) that we need more affordable housing.

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Utah is mostly federal lands, unlike Texas which is mostly private lands. The federal government could open up some federal land for development. For example, run the NSA with their domestic spying data center out of the state and build some nice high density house on top of that. Besides this would help Utah eliminate its love for coal fired power plants. (Which Grandpa Joe wants to shut down by 2035).

Almost all of the land on the Wasatch Front (where the jobs are) is privately owned. You know this.

Utah does have a water problem. Given that private citizens own little (if any) of the water that falls out of the sky in Utah maybe they should raise the water rights "tax" and encourage the good people in Utah to get rid of their landscaping and go with rockscapes.

Private citizens own most of the water rights. You should know this.

[Moliere]

Interesting. Can you elaborate?

I’m not sure how much there is to elaborate on. He wants to build a bunch of new starter homes, which would be more affordable and I agree with that strategy. I was in Utah two weekends ago and this got some play in the news, or at least in discussions with family and friends.

Im no expert but it sounds like the issue is that building small homes isn’t as profitable as large McMansions and/or apartment buildings. So most home builders won’t target small, single family houses. The government should incentivize home builders to build affordable small homes or they may never get built.