Death Penalty

[Northwestcoug]

For me, still too bloodthirsty. I don't think the state should be putting people to death. Any exceptions will still run into a number of gray areas, as human nature and motive is too complex. I spent a good portion of my late 20s and 30s trying to justify the death penalty to myself. For some reason it was just engrained in me that it is necessary. But my moral compass just can't justify it.

yep. The state cannot be trusted to prosecute a lot of lesser crime fairly, let alone ensuring innocent people aren’t put to death.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If you're a 9-year-old who was raped and threatened with murder, shouldn't you have the right to know that the "monster" who hurt you can't hurt you anymore?

Life in prison with no parole.

[Bo Diddley]

Disgusting.

In my freshman speech class, one of the assignments was to give speech taking a side in a current issue. I selected the death penalty and was arguing against it. I shared what I had prepared with my dad, who told me I was arguing for the wrong position. He pointed me to the Mosaic Law. I changed my speech to argue in favor of the death penalty.

Now I think I'm somewhere near wuap's stated position.

I argued in favor of the death penalty in high school debate. Now I want nothing to do with condemning anyone to death. Life is precious.

I cut someone down who was dead. I cut someone down who was trying to die, and died later due to extensive damage. I watched a man walk to the execution chamber where his life ended. I had a soldier go out of his way to thank me for everything I did for him shortly before he killed himself. I had a good friend blown to Hell. I've walked through pools of blood--I'll never forget the smell, look, and feel.

Yeah, let's just lock them up for life and be good with it

[wuapinmon]

Life in prison with no parole.

All it takes is one bully on the playground saying, "He escaped!" about their attacker and the victim is reliving that trauma constantly. I say just let him die and spare the victim the endless worry.

[wuapinmon]

I argued in favor of the death penalty in high school debate. Now I want nothing to do with condemning anyone to death. Life is precious.

I cut someone down who was dead. I cut someone down who was trying to die, and died later due to extensive damage. I watched a man walk to the execution chamber where his life ended. I had a soldier go out of his way to thank me for everything I did for him shortly before he killed himself. I had a good friend blown to Hell. I've walked through pools of blood--I'll never forget the smell, look, and feel.

Yeah, let's just lock them up for life and be good with it

My father told me he was talking to two Marines in Vietnam, an explosion went off, and he suddenly realized that he was breathing in their vaporized shit and blood. He said he never forgot how that smelled and tasted and it would sometimes haunt him.

[Jeff Lebowski]

All it takes is one bully on the playground saying, "He escaped!" about their attacker and the victim is reliving that trauma constantly. I say just let him die and spare the victim the endless worry.

If you support the death penalty, you have to support it knowing full well that we have executed and will continue to execute lots of innocent people and that it is applied in a grossly disproportional manner to blacks and minorities. And mentally disabled people.

[Bo Diddley]

My father told me he was talking to two Marines in Vietnam, an explosion went off, and he suddenly realized that he was breathing in their vaporized shit and blood. He said he never forgot how that smelled and tasted and it would sometimes haunt him.

Yeah, that would be horrific. I suppose you get to a good place, but out of the blue something will trigger the memories.

I was brought up in a conservative home, but the older I've gotten, my positions on traditional issues and views have often made a 180. The death penalty is one of those issues.

[wuapinmon]

If you support the death penalty, you have to support it knowing full well that we have executed and will continue to execute lots of innocent people and that it is applied in a grossly disproportional manner to blacks and minorities. And mentally disabled people.

I don't have an argument against your point, but the emotions of thinking about someone hurting my kids makes me very Old Testament towards those who harm kids. It's not a rational argument I present. I recognize that.

[Moliere]

I don't have an argument against your point, but the emotions of thinking about someone hurting my kids makes me very Old Testament towards those who harm kids. It's not a rational argument I present. I recognize that.

Thankfully we have the New Testament Jesus to help us.

[MartyFunkhouser]

I am against the death penalty in all cases.

On this, the Dude and I agree.

I think the death penalty is barbaric.

Innocent people get killed. It is used to target minorities and those in poverty.

How many people have been killed that were innocent? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

How many innocent people are sitting in jail for life confessing to a crime that he/she did not commit to avoid the threat of the death penalty if it went to trial? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

I just can't find the justification for it in any circumstance.

[All-American]

On this, the Dude and I agree.

I think the death penalty is barbaric.

Innocent people get killed. It is used to target minorities and those in poverty.

How many people have been killed that were innocent? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

How many innocent people are sitting in jail for life confessing to a crime that he/she did not commit to avoid the threat of the death penalty if it went to trial? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

I just can't find the justification for it in any circumstance.

I think it is justified, when correctly applied and in the most egregious cases (think OKC bombing). But I also think it is incorrectly applied in a significant number of cases. I also think letting someone rot in a cell for the rest of their lives is a nearly equally apt punishment, so it causes me no heartburn to think that somebody got life in prison instead of the death penalty.

[Copelius]

I think it is justified, when correctly applied and in the most egregious cases (think OKC bombing). But I also think it is incorrectly applied in a significant number of cases. I also think letting someone rot in a cell for the rest of their lives is a nearly equally apt punishment, so it causes me no heartburn to think that somebody got life in prison instead of the death penalty.

I side with AA in that there are instances in which it would be appropriate, but they have to be of the most egregious type of crime and the greatest assurity of guilt. Maybe even higher than BARD. That said, the amount of time and resources it takes or would take to apply that doesn't meet with my ROI calculation. I would instead prefer a life without parole sentence with administrative guidelines from the DOC that without making it an 8th amendment violation, makes the rest of their life extremely unpleasant. What would that entail? I will leave that to the political process but it would not include some of the privileges given to prisoners who have a chance at parole. If you do not have the possibility of parole because of the heinousness of your crime, should the state expend any resources toward rehabilitation?

[Jeff Lebowski]

On this, the Dude and I agree.

I think the death penalty is barbaric.

Innocent people get killed. It is used to target minorities and those in poverty.

How many people have been killed that were innocent? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

How many innocent people are sitting in jail for life confessing to a crime that he/she did not commit to avoid the threat of the death penalty if it went to trial? How many of these people are black? How many are poor?

I just can't find the justification for it in any circumstance.

[Non Sequitur]

I don't have an argument against your point, but the emotions of thinking about someone hurting my kids makes me very Old Testament towards those who harm kids. It's not a rational argument I present. I recognize that.

I'm against capital punishment, not because I believe guilty people don't deserve to die, but because as a systemic practice mistakes are made. If someone were to harm one of my kids, though, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment to personally end the life of the person who harmed my child, but that's my prerogative, not the government's.

[Bo Diddley]

I side with AA in that there are instances in which it would be appropriate, but they have to be of the most egregious type of crime and the greatest assurity of guilt. Maybe even higher than BARD. That said, the amount of time and resources it takes or would take to apply that doesn't meet with my ROI calculation. I would instead prefer a life without parole sentence with administrative guidelines from the DOC that without making it an 8th amendment violation, makes the rest of their life extremely unpleasant. What would that entail? I will leave that to the political process but it would not include some of the privileges given to prisoners who have a chance at parole. If you do not have the possibility of parole because of the heinousness of your crime, should the state expend any resources toward rehabilitation?

How do you influence the administration within the DOC? There's a lot of case law from challenges based on the 8th Amendment, and I think all D's of C pretty much write their own policies and procedures to fit within case law. The guy who wrote the Utah policies back in the late 80's/early 90's sold essentially the same thing to other states who were interested, IIRC. I remember in training listening to him talk about how they developed different policies. "It's not expressly prohibited by current case law, so we wrote it this way."

Also, Utah decided that managing the inmates on Death Row was important enough that if they gave them privileges (tv, increased rec time, etc) that the inmates then had something to lose, and could then be managed. Prior to this, they had nothing, and acted out because "what else are you going to do to me?"