LDS Bear traps

[RC Vikings]

4. Wild Horses

How about some Crazy Horses.

[YOUTUBE]yiNnDpIW918[/YOUTUBE]

[Mormon Red Death]

I had to think for a minute......horse racing.

I was using it in the sense of "wild horses could drag me away." I almost didn't since I used "drive me away" but I felt the humor of it was good enough. I'm embarrassed that I had to stop and think about your good joke. I don't bet on horses, but I do always bet 6,8, and 10 the hard way with odds on my pass bet.

No... i was playing off the Garth Brooks lyric.

[ERCougar]

As I stated above, I was pondering this thread last night (now I can add CUF posts to, slow corners, injured O-line, and Sam Bradford that keep me awake at night). I read Faith's post right before logging off and couldn’t get if off my mind. I was touched by her honesty and sincerity. Of all the reasons someone leaves the church those who feel similarly to Faith is the most unsettling to me. The logic or illogic of polygamy, Egyptian papyri, and seer stones can be debated ad-nauseum but ultimately have little effect on me. My involvement in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is based primarily on my belief that I have felt an answer to prayer. I'm not a gifted enough writer to convey the feelings I have felt on many occasions (one of which was giving Father's blessing to my 4 kids this previous Sunday) reconfirming to me that this is the correct course of action for my life. However, if I believe in prayer and ask people to respect the conclusions that I draw from it, I must likewise do the same.

When Faith states that her departure from Mormonism is the result of feelings from the Holy Ghost (which it appears she had felt and recognized many times prior, and I assume since) that makes my puzzler sore. I don’t like the zero-sum game- if you are right than I must be wrong, or vice-versa. Is it possible for different individuals to receive seeming contradictory answers, from God, to the same question? I think it is. I don’t feel Heavenly Father is required to answer all my “why” and “how come” inquiries. Yet I do feel I’m required to act upon those things he has “told” me. Nothing gives me greater comfort than the belief that a merciful and understanding Savior will be my judge and my hope that all the uncertainty and confusions of this mortal existence will someday make sense.

I really appreciate this post. I'm not sure if you read my post in SM's temple thread, but I'm about to have a discussion with my bishop on my "issues" with the temple. For some reason, I feel obligated to defend my non-attendance with rational arguments, when in reality, while I had my reasons for my non-attendance, the chief reason was that it just didn't feel right. I don't know if it was my perspective at the time, my stage in life, my relationship with my wife, or what, but I just didn't feel like the temple brought me any spiritual strength and instead just left me empty. Mullahs (not saying you're a mullah...) expect me to completely accept their declarations of knowledge based on feeling, yet when I try to share the same feelings with the opposite conclusions, I'm skeptical that it will just be accepted. I really appreciate your willingness to accept that there may be another side of the coin.

And to answer your question, yes--I do think the Holy Ghost can give two completely opposite promptings to two different people. I do feel like that taking a break from the temple was the right thing to do for me at the time, even inspired by God. Now I'm starting to feel the need to return to the temple. Can't explain why--I'm just ready to try it again. Maybe it's God. Maybe it's just curiosity.

[JohnnyLingo]

Why the terminology "bear trap"?

[Indy Coug]

I really appreciate this post. I'm not sure if you read my post in SM's temple thread, but I'm about to have a discussion with my bishop on my "issues" with the temple. For some reason, I feel obligated to defend my non-attendance with rational arguments, when in reality, while I had my reasons for my non-attendance, the chief reason was that it just didn't feel right. I don't know if it was my perspective at the time, my stage in life, my relationship with my wife, or what, but I just didn't feel like the temple brought me any spiritual strength and instead just left me empty. Mullahs (not saying you're a mullah...) expect me to completely accept their declarations of knowledge based on feeling, yet when I try to share the same feelings with the opposite conclusions, I'm skeptical that it will just be accepted. I really appreciate your willingness to accept that there may be another side of the coin.

And to answer your question, yes--I do think the Holy Ghost can give two completely opposite promptings to two different people. I do feel like that taking a break from the temple was the right thing to do for me at the time, even inspired by God. Now I'm starting to feel the need to return to the temple. Can't explain why--I'm just ready to try it again. Maybe it's God. Maybe it's just curiosity.

My 5 second response about temple attendance: I don't get a lot personally out of temple attendance, but I have a strong testimony that what I am doing directly benefits others; therefore, I go (although I should go more often than I do).

[byu71]

This is an interesting thread, with a fine combination of seriousness and levity. Leaning for the moment more towards the latter, I've enjoyed imagining the reaction of some of the early Saints (say, a survivor of the Martin handcart company) listening to some of the gripes about meeting times.

And you whippersnappers have it easy. Back in my day (the '60s), I had Priesthood Meeting from 8-9 AM, Sunday School from 11:30 tp 1:00, Sacrament Meeting from 6:30 to 8:00 PM, and we had to stay in our Sunday dress all day. Made us strong.

Ah dang, the much feared "handcart" guilt trip. You Bishops know all the good ones.

I am going to resolve to attend all my meetings and find a righteous woman and get married. Thanks PAC.

[Art Vandelay]

I really appreciate this post. I'm not sure if you read my post in SM's temple thread, but I'm about to have a discussion with my bishop on my "issues" with the temple. For some reason, I feel obligated to defend my non-attendance with rational arguments, when in reality, while I had my reasons for my non-attendance, the chief reason was that it just didn't feel right. I don't know if it was my perspective at the time, my stage in life, my relationship with my wife, or what, but I just didn't feel like the temple brought me any spiritual strength and instead just left me empty. Mullahs (not saying you're a mullah...) expect me to completely accept their declarations of knowledge based on feeling, yet when I try to share the same feelings with the opposite conclusions, I'm skeptical that it will just be accepted. I really appreciate your willingness to accept that there may be another side of the coin.

And to answer your question, yes--I do think the Holy Ghost can give two completely opposite promptings to two different people. I do feel like that taking a break from the temple was the right thing to do for me at the time, even inspired by God. Now I'm starting to feel the need to return to the temple. Can't explain why--I'm just ready to try it again. Maybe it's God. Maybe it's just curiosity.

Perhaps one of the things I enjoy about this forum is the insights that people share that they may not be inclined to tell their own family, friends or priesthood leaders. This thread has given me cause for reflection and even insight in why some of my ward members may have a reluctance to attend the temple. I think I can do a better job of asking is there anything I can do to help with your concern and focus less on whether or not that results in a specific outcome- reactivation, temple attendance, quit hitting your husband,etc.

thanks for sharing.

[SeattleUte]

Given the propensity of posts/threads of this nature, I thought it would be valuable to make a hierachy of apostacizing issues. I am going to rank them in the relevance to me. Feel free to add, edit, alter to your liking.

1. Priesthood ban
1a. Polygamy
3. Masonic root of Temple ceremonies
4. BOA
5. Multiple versions of first vision
6. Seer stone and felt hat
7. BY's various doctrines(Adam-God, Blood atonement, etc)

I think it's a mistake to evaluate Mormonism on these terms.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Why the terminology "bear trap"?

Think of something that you didn't see(know about), that you stepped in and has enough force to hold you at bay for a period of time. Pitfall would be another word

[scottie]

Perhaps one of the things I enjoy about this forum is the insights that people share that they may not be inclined to tell their own family, friends or priesthood leaders. This thread has given me cause for reflection and even insight in why some of my ward members may have a reluctance to attend the temple. I think I can do a better job of asking is there anything I can do to help with your concern and focus less on whether or not that results in a specific outcome- reactivation, temple attendance, quit hitting your husband,etc.

thanks for sharing.

AV, with the barcoded temple recommends, are you sent a report of your ward's temple attendance?

[JohnnyLingo]

Think of something that you didn't see(know about), that you stepped in and has enough force to hold you at bay for a period of time. Pitfall would be another word

Hmm. Thanks for explaining.

[wuapinmon]

No... i was playing off the Garth Brooks lyric.

Forgive my ignorance of Norman's finest's lyrics.

[byu71]

Perhaps one of the things I enjoy about this forum is the insights that people share that they may not be inclined to tell their own family, friends or priesthood leaders. This thread has given me cause for reflection and even insight in why some of my ward members may have a reluctance to attend the temple. I think I can do a better job of asking is there anything I can do to help with your concern and focus less on whether or not that results in a specific outcome- reactivation, temple attendance, quit hitting your husband,etc.

thanks for sharing.

Let me just say, I appreciate those who have been, are or are going to be Bishops. I know Bishops say how blessed they are for having the calling. I know it is a position I would have no desire in seeking no matter how many times Bishops talk about how blessed they are.

I appreciate all my former Bishops. Some just because I can imagine the effort it takes and others because I truly felt they cared about me and not a peg they felt I should fit in.

I have heard two quotes from Bishops I know very well. One was after he was Bishop and we were sitting on the back row and a subject came up that caused him to say," look out over that congregation, it is a nice fascade, there are many, many problems under that fascade." Another Bishop when put in told me it would be a cake job, because his ward was so active and for lack of a better word, "great" people. He told me a year later he was walking in the neighborhood, turned to his wife and asked, "is there anyone around here who doesn't have a problem."

I don't say this to demean the members, it is not demeaning to have problems, it is life. I just don't think sometimes we realize how much Bishops deal with.

[wuapinmon]

AV, with the barcoded temple recommends, are you sent a report of your ward's temple attendance?

I asked about this in Fall 2007 when they switched over. The SP promised that no tracking was occurring, that it was all about security. I did not believe the statement at the time, nor do I believe it currently.

[JohnnyLingo]

I asked about this in Fall 2007 when they switched over. The SP promised that no tracking was occurring, that it was all about security. I did not believe the statement at the time, nor do I believe it currently.

Why lie about it?