LDS Bear traps

[wuapinmon]

For all of us here, please post who these scholars are and any of their publications/work.

I second this motion.

[FN Phat]

What often keeps me going to church, in spite of the boredom I feel and poor-reception I sometimes get due to my politics (which I don't discuss at Church!), is my experience in life before I joined the Church. I remember what it was like to not be Mormon, to not have any sense of spirituality in my life, to not be able to identify with a group that shared my values (and my values have changed to conform with the group), and to be totally ensimismado and feel hollow about not being altruistic but not having any guidance really about how to stop it.

Several things that could drive me away from the Church:

1. Recommendations about political affiliation
2. Polygamy reinstated
3. Rude and prideful General Authorities
4. Wild Horses

Of these options, I have to say that only #2 would "drive" me away from the church. That is the one thing that would effect the relationship I have with my wife and family.

[Indy Coug]

Of these options, I have to say that only #2 would "drive" me away from the church. That is the one thing that would effect the relationship I have with my wife and family.

Even if the church did reinstate polygamy, how many of you honestly think you would be asked to live it?

Think about polygamy from this direction: there are multiple cultures that allow polygamy (eg. Islam and many cultures in Africa). As it currently stands, these people can't be baptized if they have more than one wife. Are we going to in perpetuity have a stance that will either completely preclude these people from joining the church or at the bare minimum force them to split up their families?

But who really cares about those damn, dirty Arabs?

[wuapinmon]

Even if the church did reinstate polygamy, how many of you honestly think you would be asked to live it?

Given the history, I might not be asked to, but my wife might be, without me knowing.

But, regardless, anything that weakens my family will not be good. Have fun if that day ever comes, Indy.

[Indy Coug]

But, regardless, anything that weakens my family will not be good. Have fun if that day ever comes, Indy.

What does that even mean?


P.S. I see you completely ignored the main point made in my previous post.

[wuapinmon]

What does that even mean?


P.S. I see you completely ignored the main point made in my previous post.

I didn't ignore it. Yes, as long as the Church bans polygamy, they will continue to deny membership to those practicing polygamy. And, the polygamist issue is not the main issue keeping Arabs and Africans practicing the practice from practicing our religion, so I didn't respond to it, because it was a phishing expedition.

[Clark Addison]

In my experience, and the thing I would fear most knowing my weaknesses, the #1 reason most people leave the church is apathy. I suppose your list depends on your definition of apostatizing, but I find in most cases people quit coming not because of one big thing they do or don't believe but many small things they grow tired of doing

I know this has already been addressed, but I'd be very careful about generalizing here. I'm sure there are many people who meet your criteria here, but I would bet money that there are a whole lot more people who say to themselves, "why am I doing all of this work when I don't believe in anything being said over the pulpit?

One of the problems is that you are looking at a skewed sample. If someone still believes, but is worn down, this is a person who is very likely to go to their Priesthood leader and pour out his soul. You see all of these people. On the other hand, if someone stops doing because he stops believing, this person has very little reason to go and see you, since he is not interested in buying anything you have to sell. The end result of this is that the majority of apostates who are willing to talk with you and discuss their troubles are people who still believe, even if this represents a minority of apostates in total.

[Indy Coug]

And, the polygamist issue is not the main issue keeping Arabs and Africans practicing the practice from practicing our religion, so I didn't respond to it, because it was a phishing expedition.

It's a very real issue for missionaries in Africa and if the barrier didn't exist, there would be a lot more baptisms. But keep downplaying it if you must.

And while the day isn't here for most Muslim areas, that day will eventually arrive and something has to give when it does.

[wuapinmon]

It's a very real issue for missionaries in Africa and if the barrier didn't exist, there would be a lot more baptisms. But keep downplaying it if you must.

And whlie the day isn't here for most Muslim areas, that day will eventually arrive and something has to give when it does.

One of my areas of research interests is Equatorial Guinea, right on the Guinea Coast, and it is a hotbed of polygamy in Africa. I understand that many people there practice polygamy. However, they are not the majority. Now, I'm not as familiar with the South African practices, and since we know that God has been "cool" with and to polygamy at various times in history, depending on the cultural norms and politricks of the times, it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility that it could be reinstated.

If this were to happen, on a culturally-relevant basis, I don't see it driving me from the church, though I would wonder at the church giving the stamp of approval to Guinean polygamy which treats women as chattle. However, if the Church brings it back stateside, to protect my daughters and my relationship with my wife, I don't see my membership in the Church continuing for a couple of reasons.

1. I want my daughters to know what the love of one person is like, and to not ever play second fiddle to a first.
2. I don't want my mind to constantly be tempted by the what-ifs of possibility, especially if I'm in dutch with the Mrs.

There's your proper treatment.

[Rosebud]

But, regardless, anything that weakens my family will not be good. Have fun if that day ever comes, Indy.

I'm a life-time member and I've seen plenty that weakens families. If you'd had my experiences, then, you'd already be gone.

[Rosebud]

It's a very real issue for missionaries in Africa and if the barrier didn't exist, there would be a lot more baptisms. But keep downplaying it if you must.

And while the day isn't here for most Muslim areas, that day will eventually arrive and something has to give when it does.

Who are you really Indy? Your logic is all over the place. Are you an apostate/heretic pretending to be a mullah for fun or is what you say at least partially sincere? Generally I trust that you're speaking what you really believe.... but some of your posts make me wonder.

[Indy Coug]

Who are you really Indy? Your logic is all over the place. Are you an apostate/heretic pretending to be a mullah for fun or is what you say at least partially sincere? Generally I trust that you're speaking what you really believe.... but some of your posts make me wonder.

You're going to have to restate because I'm not sure what your problem is with that post nor what you are really asking.

[RC Vikings]

11. The three hour block.
12. The 1pm-4pm block.
13. Saturday night stake conference

[FN Phat]

12. The 1pm-4pm block.

Amen, brother RC Viking.

Thankfully my stake is so spread out, our ward has the building to it's self. We are 10am-1pm and it never changes. I would like it a bit earlier, as football has already started by the time that I get home.

[Indy Coug]

11. The three hour block.
12. The 1pm-4pm block.
13. Saturday night stake conference

The 2-5pm block drove me away from church because my infant daughter's naptime was 2-5 and she refused to sleep anywhere but in the carseat or in the crib. Sitting in the foyer with a screaming baby was pointless. I went back to church a few months later when we moved.