Mormon WikiLeaks (MormonLeaks)

[Green Monstah]

I think this is a key point. It's messy because a) he's 85 and possibly not full mental state b) he has history of confessing half truths, so maybe nothing he said is trustworthy.

This. By his own admission, he doesn't tell the full story. Which is why I don't buy that the backrub and swimsuit issues are where the story ends.

[Pelado]

Lol...dumb dumb.

He's on old white male. He needs to be destroyed. Stay with the Ex-mo narrative please.

I wont listen to a Podcast, nor will I read the transcript. But...for someone that didn't want this to get out, how did the recording get out?

Someone isn't telling the truth.

Maybe she initially didn't want it released but then changed her mind and did authorize its release. Maybe her attorney leaked it without her authorization. Maybe she shared it with somebody while trying to make a decision of what to do and that person leaked it without her authorization. Maybe somebody at the COB leaked it. Lots of possibilities.

[jay santos]

This. By his own admission, he doesn't tell the full story. Which is why I don't buy that the backrub and swimsuit issues are where the story ends.

Yeah, I wish she would have asked a few questions she didn't. I mean you can't blame her. But it would have been nice. "If you don't remember attempting to rape me, what do you remember? What do you think happened?" And really pushed him on that. And obviously "what do you mean it got frisky, did you rape her too?"

[Pelado]

Yes, you said it better than me.

He's a sexual predator, I get that. He did inappropriate things and should be disciplined by the church. He even confessed to doing inappropriate things. But there's no evidence or confession of rape or attempted rape so the exmo narrative of this guy raping people isn't really holding up. This doesn't discount that fact that church leaders should have removed him from his position when the accusations were made, but even MPFunk seems willing to give a small pass to the church back then given the very different environment in society towards this stuff.

Thankfully things have changed for the better even before this allegation, as evidence by what our resident bishops have mentioned.

I guess I'm more upset that Mormonleaks got the scoop before I could put this lady on a podcast episode

Just because he didn't admit to it doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.

Anecdote: I know a woman who was sexually abused by her father when she was young. He also abused at least two other sisters. I think he was disfellowshipped for a little while by the Church, but I don't think he suffered any legal ramifications. A few years ago, when this woman was about 40-45 years old, she asked her father to admit/apologize for what he'd done to her. He claimed not to remember doing any of the things she remembered. She became very frustrated that he couldn't even admit what he'd done that had caused her so much grief and pain during her life.

[jay santos]

Maybe she initially didn't want it released but then changed her mind and did authorize its release. Maybe her attorney leaked it without her authorization. Maybe she shared it with somebody while trying to make a decision of what to do and that person leaked it without her authorization. Maybe somebody at the COB leaked it. Lots of possibilities.

What I read somewhere was that they got it from another party, but verified the story's general accuracy before releasing. She never gave permission. And there is rumor that she's mad about it because it hurt her negotiating position with the Church.

[Uncle Ted]

Yes, you said it better than me.

He's a sexual predator, I get that. He did inappropriate things and should be disciplined by the church. He even confessed to doing inappropriate things. But there's no evidence or confession of rape or attempted rape so the exmo narrative of this guy raping people isn't really holding up. This doesn't discount that fact that church leaders should have removed him from his position when the accusations were made, but even MPFunk seems willing to give a small pass to the church back then given the very different environment in society towards this stuff.

Thankfully things have changed for the better even before this allegation, as evidence by what our resident bishops have mentioned.

I guess I'm more upset that Mormonleaks got the scoop before I could put this lady on a podcast episode

So when you do get around to the podcast episode can you clarify a few things:

(1) If JLB was indeed disciplined by the church or not. If so, was he excommunicated or disfellowshipped? One would think given he used his leadership position(s) in the church to take advantage of these young women he would get the big E. Given, however, that he is back and serving in the SS presidency (as the "3rd string bell ringer") this excommunication (assuming that is the case) must have taken place some time ago.

(2) If any sort of legal action was taken against JLB. I suspect not given that usually generates some sort of public record and no one, that I know of, has dug any of that up yet.

Thanks,

-Ted

Your number #1 podcast fan.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What I read somewhere was that they got it from another party, but verified the story's general accuracy before releasing. She never gave permission. And there is rumor that she's mad about it because it hurt her negotiating position with the Church.

That's not a rumor. It is right in the Trib article.

BTW, here is the DNews take. Pretty similar to the Trib article.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900013586/police-report-sheds-more-light-on-accusations-against-former-mtc-president.html

[tooblue]

That's not a rumor. It is right in the Trib article.

BTW, here is the DNews take. Pretty similar to the Trib article.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...president.html

Hack ... I posted the original Deseret News article yesterday, as it was published a day before the Trib article, because the Trib has gotten itself in trouble recently (cough, cough, Gordon Monson, cough) reporting without first verifying facts.

[Moliere]

Just because he didn't admit to it doesn't necessarily mean it didn't happen.

I agree. I'll say that I think he's downplaying what he actually did by telling half-truths, which is obviously just my opinion. It's also my opinion that what there is admission to is not as egregious as some are making it out to be.

What I read somewhere was that they got it from another party, but verified the story's general accuracy before releasing. She never gave permission. And there is rumor that she's mad about it because it hurt her negotiating position with the Church.

Yeah, like JL pointed out, this is in the SLTrib article. My honest opinion is that if there really were negotiations going on, that is terrible for the church. Why would they negotiate? Unless she was just trying to pry some money out of them and they were just trying to make it go away. Well, at some point the church will learn that things don't go away in today's world...especially when there is digital evidence.

[jay santos]

This story keeps getting worse. She told her bishop (not Bishop) in 1987 about it. His response.

”I felt the allegations were groundless,” he recalled this week. “They were so farfetched and not internally logical.”

It takes a lot of vetting for a man to be approved for a position like MTC president, the Mormon lay leader said, “which made her story very hard to believe.”

[Pelado]

That's not a rumor. It is right in the Trib article.

BTW, here is the DNews take. Pretty similar to the Trib article.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...president.html

From the article:

"Joseph’s account was fairly similar to (hers) except for the rape," Sgt. Robert Nelson wrote in the report. "Joseph told us that he did go to his small MTC preparation room in the cafeteria area with (her). Then while talking to her he asked her to show him her breasts, which she did."

The new information from the BYU police report appeared to corroborate information on the recording, where Bishop admitted to going alone with her to what he said was a secondary office.

If all he was intending to do was get a look at her bare breasts, why would they need to go to a secondary office? Seems that could be accomplished in his regular office.

[Pelado]

This story keeps getting worse. She told her bishop (not Bishop) in 1987 about it. His response.

From the transcript:

You ... with your addiction, a predator. You were a predator. You preyed on
vulnerable women, broken women, who you thought were not strong, and
could not -- you told me that no one would believe me.

I did?

Yes you did.

I apologize for that.

I forgive you. But I think you were right.

...

So. For me, that ... that and the fact that you said no one will ever believe you,
look at you, you said. Look at you, look at me. Look at you, look at me. And I
went to my room, and I pretended I was sick. And I was laying there. I didn't cry.
I cried on my way out. But I didn't cry. And I just thought, oh my god, I am
nothing. I am no one. Nobody loves me.

[Uncle Ted]

That's not a rumor. It is right in the Trib article.

BTW, here is the DNews take. Pretty similar to the Trib article.

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/...president.html

So if it (releasing the audio and transcript) hurt her negotiating position with the church she is doing this for money? What else would should be negotiating with the church for? The resignation of President Nelson?

If her end game was to damage JLB's reputation releasing audio and transcript herself would have done that quite nicely. In fact, she could have Gloria Allred appear with her on all the local TV news channels to tell her story and write a tell-all book.

[The_Tick]

I'm the President of The_Tick fanclub, but if this is true, why the hell are you commenting in the thread?

Easy:

1. I like CS.
2. I like some of the people of CS.
3. I love the Church

But I'm not going to waste my time reading the fading memory of a man who made dumb choices. Nor the woman who is taking the current day definition of "sexual assault" and trying to bury this dude and vilify the Church.

And we have a huge problem with the current sliding scale of what people think is rape/sexual assault.

[Northwestcoug]

Easy:

1. I like CS.
2. I like some of the people of CS.
3. I love the Church

But I'm not going to waste my time reading the fading memory of a man who made dumb choices. Nor the woman who is taking the current day definition of "sexual assault" and trying to bury this dude and vilify the Church.

And we have a huge problem with the current sliding scale of what people think is rape/sexual assault.

Whoa.

You've already made your choice as to whose version of events you agree with, without reading the transcript. Can't change your mind until you do. But how about a little empathy for someone who was assaulted by a church leader who is basically viewed as a little less holy than the apostles? Those 'dumb choices' have real-life consequences when you believe the MTC president sees the stripling warriors protecting the MTC (as was told to us by Pinegar when I was there; either he or a previous president saw them).