The June 1

[Jeff Lebowski]

Can't explain all of them, but Clayton has had some very serious health issues. And as for me, I've provided advance notice I would not accept a calling to the Twelve, if proffered.

I told them the same thing. Too busy with some other things right now.

[YOhio]

How come none of these LDS celebrities ever become members of the 15 or even GAs?

Well, I can only posit a guess as these callings come through inspiration from the Holy Ghost. But I think it's similar to a BYU athlete that forgoes a mission in that they can bring more glory to the Kingdom than they would in a full-time pastoral role.

[creekster]

I told them the same thing. Too busy with some other things right now.

I think some fo the bigger celebs just weren't willing to give up on the fleeting moment of "feeling just like the 'noz" that SU was talking about. And once you've been there, how can you go back home again?

[YOhio]

I told them the same thing. Too busy with some other things right now.

Fighting off the Albanian hackers is a full-time job.

[BrutusBuckeye]

Can't explain all of them, but Clayton has had some very serious health issues. And as for me, I've provided advance notice I would not accept a calling to the Twelve, if proffered.

I don't blame you, as it would cut significantly into your riding time. However, maybe you could offer to pull President Monson around on his tours. Something a little like this could really improve your Strava times on your off days.

Pedal-Powered-Popemobile-1.jpg

[SeattleUte]

Well, I can only posit a guess as these callings come through inspiration from the Holy Ghost. But I think it's similar to a BYU athlete that forgoes a mission in that they can bring more glory to the Kingdom than they would in a full-time pastoral role.

There's an additional reason Gladys isn't one. She's a woman.

[SeattleUte]

I think some fo the bigger celebs just weren't willing to give up on the fleeting moment of "feeling just like the 'noz" that SU was talking about. And once you've been there, how can you go back home again?

This is ironic coming from an LDS mullah. At least I don't claim to know anything but by means of study and human reason with all its attendant imperfections and frailties.

[Pheidippides]

Completely agree. I think the majority of leaders would let this stuff go. But the discipline system is in the hands of local leaders and with the natural variation you have in leadership these things are inevitable.

While I do think that the current incident is at least informally orchestrated by the top (there are numerous reports of seventies telling SPs to go after apostates; not sure how credible they are but there is a lot of smoke), I think this is right and is the major flaw in the system right now. I think the church would be better served if discipline went through a centralized ecclesiastical panel, if it has to exist at all. I just had lunch with my bishop and he doesn't care at all about what I do; another one would go nuts. It's random, and unclear standards give opportunity for abusive practices and uneven results.

[SeattleUte]

While I do think that the current incident is at least informally orchestrated by the top (there are numerous reports of seventies telling SPs to go after apostates; not sure how credible they are but there is a lot of smoke), I think this is right and is the major flaw in the system right now. I think the church would be better served if discipline went through a centralized ecclesiastical panel, if it has to exist at all. I just had lunch with my bishop and he doesn't care at all about what I do; another one would go nuts. It's random, and unclear standards give opportunity for abusive practices and uneven results.

How hard would it be to email a memo to the bishops and stake presidents stating no excommunications for apostasy unless you clear it with the 15 or the strengthening the members' committee? The LDS Church is nothing if not hierarchical, as monolithic as McDonald's and coordinated -- indeed, this is an obsession which is the very reason bloggers are being excommunicated. I don't pay attention to this explanation that what's going on is happening at the local level because it's a dissemble, a dodge, effectively a lie -- like we don't know how the priesthood ban happened, we didn't orchestrate Prop. 8, or "your president is not a liar, I was not in charge of the Watergate break in." This is a tired old white wash.

Also, as a lawyer, I know that practically speaking the entity is held accountable for the work of its agents.

[DrumNFeather]

While I do think that the current incident is at least informally orchestrated by the top (there are numerous reports of seventies telling SPs to go after apostates; not sure how credible they are but there is a lot of smoke), I think this is right and is the major flaw in the system right now. I think the church would be better served if discipline went through a centralized ecclesiastical panel, if it has to exist at all. I just had lunch with my bishop and he doesn't care at all about what I do; another one would go nuts. It's random, and unclear standards give opportunity for abusive practices and uneven results.

Like instant replay in Hockey or Baseball...send it to a central office with (wait for it) men AND women to review (audible gasps).

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

Totally agree. She comes across as a real nag.

Comments like that are never going to get women the PH. Think about what you post, words hurt and harm.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

A feminist critique that I have seen (not from OW, mind you) is that the women who are in leadership now and who generally get called to what few leadership positions there are are those who support the patriarchy and therefore simply perpetuate the problem. In other words, if the entire system is what's broken, you can't fix it from within.

I am not sure if I agree or not, to be frank. Depends on whether or not the example trotted out before me is Chieko Okazaki or Julie Beck.

It's unfortunate that there are a hundred Julie Becks for every Okazakis. In fact, we're still awaiting the next Okazaki.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How hard would it be to email a memo to the bishops and stake presidents stating no excommunications for apostasy unless you clear it with the 15 or the strengthening the members' committee? The LDS Church is nothing if not hierarchical, as monolithic as McDonald's and coordinated -- indeed, this is an obsession which is the very reason bloggers are being excommunicated. I don't pay attention to this explanation that what's going on is happening at the local level because it's a dissemble, a dodge, effectively a lie -- like we don't know how the priesthood ban happened, we didn't orchestrate Prop. 8, or "your president is not a liar, I was not in charge of the Watergate break in." This is a tired old white wash.

Also, as a lawyer, I know that practically speaking the entity is held accountable for the work of its agents.

The church has lied before, therefore they are lying now. Brilliant display of logic.

[Pheidippides]

It's unfortunate that there are a hundred Julie Becks for every Okazakis. In fact, we're still awaiting the next Okazaki.

or, as my wife says, the biggest problem with women's equality in the church is the women. she didn't really care too much about the OW movement but she got very angry when she saw the response of a lot of the women to it.

[Jacob]

A feminist critique that I have seen (not from OW, mind you) is that the women who are in leadership now and who generally get called to what few leadership positions there are are those who support the patriarchy and therefore simply perpetuate the problem. In other words, if the entire system is what's broken, you can't fix it from within.

I am not sure if I agree or not, to be frank. Depends on whether or not the example trotted out before me is Chieko Okazaki or Julie Beck.

The reason almost all women in leadership are fine with the partriarchy is because almost all the women in the church are fine with the partriachy. Don't you think? There are very few faithful members who care about the issue, IMO. I'm not saying that those who question it are not faithful--I agree with them--I'm only saying that they are few in number. The women in my family are not concerned in the slightest. Even if I were to try to convince them otherwise.