The June 1

[creekster]

This is ironic coming from an LDS mullah. At least I don't claim to know anything but by means of study and human reason with all its attendant imperfections and frailties.

A mullah? That's funny but from you I'll take it. I just find the notion that you have come to know what Espinoza or Franklin etc. felt as they were enlightened to be pretty amazing. And by amazing I mean hubristic.

[Green Monstah]

Yes, your characterization of the article is better than mine. Thanks.

As to the second point, I agree but I have seen quite a few accounts in recent days of people losing their temple recommends (and in some cases being put on probation) for simply expressing disagreement with the church on some issue in a semi-public way. Hopefully, that is rare. Also (using your example), is there really that big of a difference posting a profile on OW vs making a similar statement on FB? Seems like a rather meaningless distinction to me.

My TR was cancelled without my knowledge for expressing doubt and requesting that I not be called to teach at church.

[Pheidippides]

The reason almost all women in leadership are fine with the partriarchy is because almost all the women in the church are fine with the partriachy. Don't you think? There are very few faithful members who care about the issue, IMO. I'm not saying that those who question it are not faithful--I agree with them--I'm only saying that they are few in number. The women in my family are not concerned in the slightest. Even if I were to try to convince them otherwise.

This may be the first time in a while we almost completely agree, save a couple minor quibbles. But it's not something I think is good.

[TripletDaddy]

A mullah? That's funny but from you I'll take it. I just find the notion that you have come to know what Espinoza or Franklin etc. felt as they were enlightened to be pretty amazing. And by amazing I mean hubristic.

Spinoza:


Espinoza:

[creekster]

Spinoza:


Espinoza:

oops. maybe he meant the latter. that would make more sense.

[Pelado]

Which is a far greater crime, in my view.

Amen, brother.

http://nautil.us/issue/14/mutation/how-the-mormons-conquered-america

Pretty impressive:

Some of the major companies started or run by Mormons include Marriott, the hotel chain, JetBlue and Skywest airlines, Bonneville Distribution, and Beneficial Life Insurance.

[YOhio]

oops. maybe he meant the latter. that would make more sense.

I thought it was a good dig at SU for his anti-Hispanic past.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Whoa. Jacob's back.

[SeattleUte]

A mullah? That's funny but from you I'll take it. I just find the notion that you have come to know what Espinoza or Franklin etc. felt as they were enlightened to be pretty amazing. And by amazing I mean hubristic.

I get it. You didn't need to explain it. I do get it.

But guess what, I do also get a bit of what they felt, a bit of the rage as well as the enlightenment they felt and eperienced. They were just smart hard working people in the right time and place. There are no great men (Tolstoy).

[SeattleUte]

Spinoza:


Espinoza:

Super bigoted post.

[BigFatMeanie]

How come none of these LDS celebrities ever become members of the 15 or even GAs?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifford_Nielsen

[SeattleUte]

The church has lied before, therefore they are lying now. Brilliant display of logic.

That post could have been better stated but I was distracted. My point is, legally as well as morally it's the 15 and the LDS Church that is doing it; they could stop it with a phone call. Is it "doctrine" that the 15 can't countermand a bishop or a stake president. Progmos may be the part of this who make the most dishonest arguments. It's amazing that progmos will fall back to this sophistry that it's the crazy stake president, not the LDS Church or the 15, and people ought just not to engage it; I don't even think the 15 are disavowing these actions.

[Jeff Lebowski]

That post could have been better stated but I was distracted. My point is, legally as well as morally it's the 15 and the LDS Church that is doing it; they could stop it with a phone call.

Agreed.

Is it "doctrine" that the 15 can't countermand a bishop or a stake president. Progmos may be the part of this who make the most dishonest arguments. It's amazing that progmos will fall back to this sophistry that it's the crazy stake president, not the LDS Church or the 15, and people ought just not to engage it; I don't even think the 15 are disavowing these actions.

Almost every ProgMo I know maintains that it is coordinated from SLC, not the rogue actions of a crazy SP. But once again, I think you are missing the nuance of the discussion here. There may be an expression of concern from SLC about the impact of OW movement, popular bloggers, etc, but the actual manner in which each case is handled and the ultimate outcome are in the hands of local leaders. And that is going to result in dramatically different results from ward to ward and from stake to stake.

[Jeff Lebowski]

A mullah? That's funny but from you I'll take it. I just find the notion that you have come to know what Espinoza or Franklin etc. felt as they were enlightened to be pretty amazing. And by amazing I mean hubristic.

Quick! Go add this to the "Names SU has called you" thread.

[SeattleUte]

Agreed.



Almost every ProgMo I know maintains that it is coordinated from SLC, not the rogue actions of a crazy SP. But once again, I think you are missing the nuance of the discussion here. There may be an expression of concern from SLC about the impact of OW movement, popular bloggers, etc, but the actual manner in which each case is handled and the ultimate outcome are in the hands of local leaders. And that is going to result in dramatically different results from ward to ward and from stake to stake.

This is always the problem with a death penalty, though, isn't it, and the easiest argument to make against it.