The June 1

[imanihonjin]

You know, this might all be cleared up if you listened to her own words.

Nope....I don't care enough to listen to an hour long conversation which isn't really going to clear much up as it is only one side of the story being told.

[Pelado]

Nope....I don't care enough to listen to an hour long conversation which isn't really going to clear much up as it is only one side of the story being told.

An hour? That's more church discussion than I've had at church the last three weeks combined.

[Northwestcoug]

An hour? That's more church discussion than I've had at church the last three weeks combined.

Crap, are you telling me I get more church discussion than you?

I really need to think this inactivity thing through...

[frank ryan]

A bunch of new information this morning. First, John Dehlin says that his SP swears this is a local action spearheaded by John's former EQP who is now on the high council. I find that somewhat hard to believe (a high councilor spearheading a disciplinary council? Somebody with more experience there should weigh in.) but I'm not sure that make it any less disturbing. Kate said that at least one member of the presidency of the seventy was aware of the proceedings in her case prior to any publicity, and that she went public only because her SP was going to if she didn't. And then throw Rock Waterman in the mix - yeah, I'm not buying that this is a local act. (Kate's SP sounds like the worst kind of asshole, although we are just getting her side of the story).

And now John Larsen is also out there talking smack about Dehlin and insinuating hypocrisy. But I think John Larsen is the most narcissistic of all of the podcasters, so it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here - not that it makes the accusation untrue. It seems that the drama is just as much of an issue for the ex/fringe mo podcasting world as it is for the church generally, if not more.

There is one thing that I think sets Kate and her situation apart completely here, however. Dehlin has been very open about his nonbelief, and this is not his first go-round with disciplinary proceedings. I don't know what he gets from his continued participation, although I know that his kids are pretty active in YW, speak in church, etc. Perhaps it's a place of comfort for him. Perhaps it enhances his brand name and income (if you want to be cynical) or his ability to help others deal with disaffection, in or out (if you don't want to be cynical). Rock has also openly said that he thinks the current iteration of the church is far afield of where it should be and needs to come back to original/sound principles, and that he doesn't care about excommunication because it's just a meaningless piece of paper. The action against them surprises me a little in that I think the wisest course of action is to not pay attention to them when they go off (some of you need to learn the same lesson about cougjunkie), but other than that I can't say I'm too shocked.

Kate, however, is a true believer. I'm convinced of this. I don't think it's logical, and my wife has stated a couple of times that she just doesn't realize that she doesn't believe yet, but regardless she believes this to be the One True Church. And she's trying to operate within the parameters she has in that light. This is why the action against her surprises me quite a bit - but I guess not really, because she's the only one who truly values her membership and hence is the only one really likely to back down at all with the threat of punishment. However, I can't think of a better way to galvanize a movement than to make the leader a martyr (there have been 75 new profiles on OW since the news broke, a massive increase), and you would think the church of all organizations would understand this.

Today on RadioWest Dehlin reputedly compared the church to a dirty shirt, called it a billion dollar organization, and said this is why you don't have 80 year old men run it (I didn't listen). He also said that Monson suffers from dementia. While I agree with him generally (other than the billion dollar thing - that's several magnitudes too small), I think he probably just committed suicide-by-cop. Kate, on the other hand, was reputedly very sympathetic and broke down into tears (as she's done in a couple of other interviews). Excommunicating her would be a huge mistake.

Who is this John Larsen character?

Your vouch for him is doing him no favors. FYI.

had a similar thought.

Not being a party to these conversations, I wonder whether a stake president might not feel at liberty to decide against initiating disciplinary proceedings when an Apostle of The Lord Jesus Christ calls him and suggests that maybe he might want to think about considering it.

I'm aware of an instance where an apostle suggested that a sp convene a court on someone and the sp decided against it.

[Pheidippides]

An hour? That's more church discussion than I've had at church the last three weeks combined.

technically it's an hour and 22 minutes. so about the length of your average fast and testimony meeting. It included a travelogue and the word thankinomy too. If somebody had the authority to bless the sacrament it could have been a full church service, but one guy there shirked his priesthood duty.

[Pheidippides]

I'm now interviewing all the good people at Squatters in the airport. Somehow I think the demographics are skewed off of usual Utah.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why? I don't think it changes anything.

I don't think the priesthood is a requirement for healing or performing miracles. Well - let me take that back. I don't think priesthood keys or authority are needed. I'd have to think a little harder before going beyond that.

I don't have a problem with women receiving revelation and/or following the spirit and bearing testimony or even providing some leadership - though I seem to recall women being more prophet and less leader in the church, but who knows why that is or even if I'm understanding what I read correctly. The killing, the slavery, etc. Yep. It all happened on God's watch and He even advocated some of it.

I think that's my whole point. Perhaps you missed it. That stuff doesn't bother me.

So you are a biblical literalist? Wow.

[All-American]

Maybe that is not the best word. Upset. Disturbed. Depressed. Take your pick.

Those I buy. Anybody who is surprised by this, on the other hand, hasn't been paying attention.

[All-American]

I'm aware of an instance where an apostle suggested that a sp convene a court on someone and the sp decided against it.

Good for that SP. I would hope most leaders would be brave enough to do that if they thought the facts did not merit discipline.

[SeattleUte]

That's an awesome picture and a very sweet op-ed, quoting a primary song back to them. She's got the fusion of panache and earnestness down pat and will annihilate them in the PR battle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rch-ordination

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

That's an awesome picture and a very sweet op-ed, quoting a primary song back to them. She's got the fusion of panache and earnestness down pat and will annihilate them in the PR battle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rch-ordination

It is an awful picture. What kind of news source uses the worst picture their photog got? If the cameraperson didn't get one where she was mid-speaking with her mouth wide open, then they are really bad at their job. There are probably cell phone pictures better than that of her news conference.

In fact, here is a vastly superior photo from the photogs flickr page.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/104442...n/photostream/

[Eddie]

So you are a biblical literalist? Wow.

Speaking of literalists...Wow indeed.

[Clark Addison]

I had a meeting with a woman that works for me today. I was out of town last week, so we hadn't spoken in a while. I was surprised that one of the first things she said was something like "Hey, I saw that you guys are excommunicating women who want the priesthood". I asked where she saw it, and she said it was on the main page of her Fox News feed she gets on her phone. I'll admit that she is a bit of an outlier for several reasons. She has a Mormon boss, her husband was an active member for several years growing up, and I had previously told her about my sister who is somewhat active in the OW stuff. Still, I was a bit surprised that someone in North Carolina who makes absolutely no effort to search out Mormon news knew about it.

[Commando]

That's an awesome picture and a very sweet op-ed, quoting a primary song back to them. She's got the fusion of panache and earnestness down pat and will annihilate them in the PR battle.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rch-ordination

Would you go so far as to say that this is going to be a PR nightmare for the Church?

[CardiacCoug]

Confession here. I'm a horrible sexist Mormon pig because when I see that picture I can't help but think that she is sort of a homely version of Katy Perry.