The June 1

[byu71]

no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.

Perhaps we should agree comparing Corporations and the church is comparing apples and oranges. I am quite content with the fact 5% of active members doesn't give you shit in the church. Would you want the 5% that are extremely orthodox to get their way?

I know if the whole church were run like BYU, I wouldn't be a proud member.

[Pheidippides]

Perhaps we should agree comparing Corporations and the church is comparing apples and oranges. I am quite content with the fact 5% of active members doesn't give you shit in the church. Would you want the 5% that are extremely orthodox to get their way?

I know if the whole church were run like BYU, I wouldn't be a proud member.

well, not entirely. The church is a corporation and is often run as such. nothing wrong with that per se. it's a very special type, though, and the motivations are different.

[Medfordcoug]

Any good company I know has a mechanism for employees reporting/complaining to top leaders directly - anonymously if they choose. Usually a hotline staffed by a third party. And shareholders absolutely have mechanisms to go over ceo's heads directly to other shareholders via proxy filings or similar. not perfect, lots of problems, sure, but some mechanism is there.

Anyone that has been excommunicated can appeal the decision.

[Green Monstah]

no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.

It really depends on the size and structure of the company. Your CEO has a reputation for being sickeningly smart and very much "hands on." Notwithstanding, we're missing the point! The CEO isn't TSM, but JC himself. We all have a direct hotline straight to the master of the universe!

[frank ryan]

no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.

In my limited experience, companies can be pretty reactive to labor strife. They would much rather try to address the problems than make martyrs out of people.

[frank ryan]

Anyone that has been excommunicated can appeal the decision.

Is anyone aware of someone successfully appealing a church court decision?

[byu71]

well, not entirely. The church is a corporation and is often run as such. nothing wrong with that per se. it's a very special type, though, and the motivations are different.

Here is where it is actually hard to make the comparisons. Ownership. I buy stock I have ownership. The CEO and other officers of the company are responsible to me.

Comparing as an employee doesn't work either. There are laws that govern how corporations are to treat employee's. Corporations care about a different image than does a church.

We are trying to compare a public organization with a private organization. Doesn't work.

Now we can argue about the PR and what the PR is doing to the church. I am convinced not many people inside or outside of the church give a crap whether Katy is in or out.

[Pheidippides]

Here is where it is actually hard to make the comparisons. Ownership. I buy stock I have ownership. The CEO and other officers of the company are responsible to me.

Comparing as an employee doesn't work either. There are laws that govern how corporations are to treat employee's. Corporations care about a different image than does a church.

We are trying to compare a public organization with a private organization. Doesn't work.

Now we can argue about the PR and what the PR is doing to the church. I am convinced not many people inside or outside of the church give a crap whether Katy is in or out.

that, indeed is the comparison problem, and some would say a problem generally. it makes TSM worth upwards of 40 billion, in theory (obviously I'm not saying he's a tycoon or that he can actually use all that). The church functions more like an MLM where the labor is also the customer.

[Donuthole]

Wanna make a bet? Admittedly is different because he is a doctor but i can guarantee you a ceo of a hospital would meet with a doctor one time.

If there were a group of nurses who were not content with some aspect of the system, he would meet with their head too. Even if they had gone public about their discontent. Maybe especially if they had gone public.
(You know this, of course--just pointing it out)

Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.

[byu71]

that, indeed is the comparison problem, and some would say a problem generally. it makes TSM worth upwards of 40 billion, in theory (obviously I'm not saying he's a tycoon or that he can actually use all that). The church functions more like an MLM where the labor is also the customer.

The church functions like a church. I don't know if there are any Catholics on the board, but I wonder if there have been any protests against women not having the Priesthood in the Catholic church? How about protests against Priests not being able to marry. What happens to a Priest or Nun if they get married? Can they stay a Priest or nun?

[Medfordcoug]

Is anyone aware of someone successfully appealing a church court decision?

Actually, I've never heard of anyone trying to appeal, but the option is there. I do know that the First Presidency reviews some excommunicated members requests to be re-baptized, so I suspect they review certain appeals.

[TripletDaddy]

Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.

Ive said that before and myboynoah laughed at me

[Blueintheface]

Actually, I've never heard of anyone trying to appeal, but the option is there. I do know that the First Presidency reviews some excommunicated members requests to be re-baptized, so I suspect they review certain appeals.

I'm assuming an appeal would take at least the same amount of time as repatriation so why not just take the medicine and get rebaptized?

[Medfordcoug]

I'm assuming an appeal would take at least the same amount of time as repatriation so why not just take the medicine and get rebaptized?

You're excommunicated for a minimum of a year before you can apply to be re-baptized. As for appealing, I had the impression the appeals process was pretty quick.

[ERCougar]

Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.

"Doctor". That's cute.