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  • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
    no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.
    Perhaps we should agree comparing Corporations and the church is comparing apples and oranges. I am quite content with the fact 5% of active members doesn't give you shit in the church. Would you want the 5% that are extremely orthodox to get their way?

    I know if the whole church were run like BYU, I wouldn't be a proud member.

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    • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
      Perhaps we should agree comparing Corporations and the church is comparing apples and oranges. I am quite content with the fact 5% of active members doesn't give you shit in the church. Would you want the 5% that are extremely orthodox to get their way?

      I know if the whole church were run like BYU, I wouldn't be a proud member.
      well, not entirely. The church is a corporation and is often run as such. nothing wrong with that per se. it's a very special type, though, and the motivations are different.
      Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

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      • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
        Any good company I know has a mechanism for employees reporting/complaining to top leaders directly - anonymously if they choose. Usually a hotline staffed by a third party. And shareholders absolutely have mechanisms to go over ceo's heads directly to other shareholders via proxy filings or similar. not perfect, lots of problems, sure, but some mechanism is there.
        Anyone that has been excommunicated can appeal the decision.

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        • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
          no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.
          It really depends on the size and structure of the company. Your CEO has a reputation for being sickeningly smart and very much "hands on." Notwithstanding, we're missing the point! The CEO isn't TSM, but JC himself. We all have a direct hotline straight to the master of the universe!
          Jesus wants me for a sunbeam.

          "Cog dis is a bitch." -James Patterson

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          • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
            no, I'm in house, and have been for a few years. I've seen labor issues, shareholder issues, and other Issues. I've handled hotline calls. first, any call, no matter how silly we may think it is, is investigated thoroughly. second, any labor disturbance or shareholder issue of similar size (do we view Kate as a shareholder or an employee? I see both) would be discussed thoroughly at the CEO level. Third, I know for a fact that CEOs meet directly groups agitating for change all the time, and they try to work something out lest it become a huge PR or other issue. The real difference? 5 percent gives you real power in a publicly traded company. 5 percent of active members doesn't give you shit in the church.
            In my limited experience, companies can be pretty reactive to labor strife. They would much rather try to address the problems than make martyrs out of people.

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            • Originally posted by Medfordcoug View Post
              Anyone that has been excommunicated can appeal the decision.
              Is anyone aware of someone successfully appealing a church court decision?

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              • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
                well, not entirely. The church is a corporation and is often run as such. nothing wrong with that per se. it's a very special type, though, and the motivations are different.
                Here is where it is actually hard to make the comparisons. Ownership. I buy stock I have ownership. The CEO and other officers of the company are responsible to me.

                Comparing as an employee doesn't work either. There are laws that govern how corporations are to treat employee's. Corporations care about a different image than does a church.

                We are trying to compare a public organization with a private organization. Doesn't work.

                Now we can argue about the PR and what the PR is doing to the church. I am convinced not many people inside or outside of the church give a crap whether Katy is in or out.

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                • Originally posted by byu71 View Post
                  Here is where it is actually hard to make the comparisons. Ownership. I buy stock I have ownership. The CEO and other officers of the company are responsible to me.

                  Comparing as an employee doesn't work either. There are laws that govern how corporations are to treat employee's. Corporations care about a different image than does a church.

                  We are trying to compare a public organization with a private organization. Doesn't work.

                  Now we can argue about the PR and what the PR is doing to the church. I am convinced not many people inside or outside of the church give a crap whether Katy is in or out.
                  that, indeed is the comparison problem, and some would say a problem generally. it makes TSM worth upwards of 40 billion, in theory (obviously I'm not saying he's a tycoon or that he can actually use all that). The church functions more like an MLM where the labor is also the customer.
                  Awesomeness now has a name. Let me introduce myself.

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                  • Originally posted by Mormon Red Death View Post
                    Wanna make a bet? Admittedly is different because he is a doctor but i can guarantee you a ceo of a hospital would meet with a doctor one time.
                    Originally posted by ERCougar View Post
                    If there were a group of nurses who were not content with some aspect of the system, he would meet with their head too. Even if they had gone public about their discontent. Maybe especially if they had gone public.
                    (You know this, of course--just pointing it out)
                    Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.
                    Prepare to put mustard on those words, for you will soon be consuming them, along with this slice of humble pie that comes direct from the oven of shame set at gas mark “egg on your face”! -- Moss

                    There's three rules that I live by: never get less than twelve hours sleep; never play cards with a guy who's got the same first name as a city; and never go near a lady's got a tattoo of a dagger on her body. Now you stick to that, everything else is cream cheese. --Coach Finstock

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                    • Originally posted by Pheidippides View Post
                      that, indeed is the comparison problem, and some would say a problem generally. it makes TSM worth upwards of 40 billion, in theory (obviously I'm not saying he's a tycoon or that he can actually use all that). The church functions more like an MLM where the labor is also the customer.
                      The church functions like a church. I don't know if there are any Catholics on the board, but I wonder if there have been any protests against women not having the Priesthood in the Catholic church? How about protests against Priests not being able to marry. What happens to a Priest or Nun if they get married? Can they stay a Priest or nun?

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                      • Originally posted by frank ryan View Post
                        Is anyone aware of someone successfully appealing a church court decision?
                        Actually, I've never heard of anyone trying to appeal, but the option is there. I do know that the First Presidency reviews some excommunicated members requests to be re-baptized, so I suspect they review certain appeals.

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                        • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
                          Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.
                          Ive said that before and myboynoah laughed at me
                          Fitter. Happier. More Productive.

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                          • Originally posted by Medfordcoug View Post
                            Actually, I've never heard of anyone trying to appeal, but the option is there. I do know that the First Presidency reviews some excommunicated members requests to be re-baptized, so I suspect they review certain appeals.
                            I'm assuming an appeal would take at least the same amount of time as repatriation so why not just take the medicine and get rebaptized?
                            "Either evolution or intelligent design can account for the athlete, but neither can account for the sports fan." - Robert Brault

                            "Once I seen the trades go down and the other guys signed elsewhere," he said, "I knew it was my time now." - Derrick Favors

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                            • Originally posted by Blueintheface View Post
                              I'm assuming an appeal would take at least the same amount of time as repatriation so why not just take the medicine and get rebaptized?
                              You're excommunicated for a minimum of a year before you can apply to be re-baptized. As for appealing, I had the impression the appeals process was pretty quick.

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                              • Originally posted by Donuthole View Post
                                Speaking of sexism, why is Kate Kelly the nurse in this analogy? She is a doctor in real life, fyi. You guys make me sick.
                                "Doctor". That's cute.
                                At least the Big Ten went after a big-time addition in Nebraska; the Pac-10 wanted a game so badly, it added Utah
                                -Berry Trammel, 12/3/10

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