Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[UtahDan]

Now we are getting into nuance. I only joke with Jewish friends, for example, about Judaism, when it is clear that they welcome the ribbing or joking. Just seems like good manners to me.

But I do not want to blow this out of proportion. I'd rather talk about the other issues I noted than discuss whether Robin and SU look like jerks.

Someone remarked to me recently in a PM, and I think it is true, that there is no one who more articulately, thoughtfully or respectfully articulates the traditional LDS view than does LA. The other thing that distinguishes him is that he will engage in dialog and not immediately roll his eyes and move on to other things.

I'm just publicly pausing to note how valuable I find your perspective LA and I hope that you enjoy these discussions too. I hope you know that for many of us (excluding our beloved apostates) these are exercises in finding equilibrium under the banner of the church, not attempts to deride it or find a door. There are doors aplenty and I never intend to walk through any of them.

It is also worth saying that the existence of this website is justified by LA and SU in dialog even if none of the rest of us ever made a peep. For me this thread is an example of CUF at its best.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Someone remarked to me recently in a PM, and I think it is true, that there is no one who more articulately, thoughtfully or respectfully articulates the traditional LDS view than does LA. The other thing that distinguishes him is that he will engage in dialog and not immediately roll his eyes and move on to other things.

I'm just publicly pausing to note how valuable I find your perspective LA and I hope that you enjoy these discussions too. I hope you know that for many of us (excluding our beloved apostates) these are exercises in finding equilibrium under the banner of the church, not attempts to deride it or find a door. There are doors aplenty and I never intend to walk through any of them.

It is also worth saying that the existence of this website is justified by LA and SU in dialog even if none of the rest of us ever made a peep. For me this thread is an example of CUF at its best.

Amen.

[TripletDaddy]

Kinky!

What about this one?

I am in hand-to-hand contact with SU here all the time.

[I.J. Reilly]

I'm sorry you think it's creepy. I submit it's perfectly understandable to cite folks like Twain, Socrates and Einstein in response to an argument that only a jerk attacks a purported religious belief. No authority can be too high in response to an assertion of religious sanction. So I am in good company. Just pick up any mainstream publication that engages in any thoughtful covering of religion. Religious belief is attacked all the time as wrong and stupid and harmful.

No, no. You misunderstood me. The creepy comment was more a riff on the Fyerio/TD spat. Not really a comment on your post except to say that I have enjoyed the appeal to authority that you have recently engaged in more often as evidence of the correctness of your views.

[I.J. Reilly]

Someone remarked to me recently in a PM, and I think it is true, that there is no one who more articulately, thoughtfully or respectfully articulates the traditional LDS view than does LA. The other thing that distinguishes him is that he will engage in dialog and not immediately roll his eyes and move on to other things.

I'm just publicly pausing to note how valuable I find your perspective LA and I hope that you enjoy these discussions too. I hope you know that for many of us (excluding our beloved apostates) these are exercises in finding equilibrium under the banner of the church, not attempts to deride it or find a door. There are doors aplenty and I never intend to walk through any of them.

It is also worth saying that the existence of this website is justified by LA and SU in dialog even if none of the rest of us ever made a peep. For me this thread is an example of CUF at its best.

Were you the one to give this thread its three star rating? I have a feeling these ratings will weigh heavily in the end of the year Cuffies and I just want to make sure that the appropriate star ranking is given to them so that the rating may exist as an easy shorthand at the end of the year. Perhaps it should be bumped up to a four?

[TripletDaddy]

No, no. You misunderstood me. The creepy comment was more a riff on the Fyerio/TD spat. Not really a comment on your post except to say that I have enjoyed the appeal to authority that you have recently engaged in more often as evidence of the correctness of your views.

The "creepy" thing was Foyero/Fyerio and RobinFinderson.

"Caring is Creepy" is a Marty Crandall/James Mercer thing.

[SeattleUte]

Amen.

I agree with the part about LAUte.

[Coach McGuirk]

Someone remarked to me recently in a PM, and I think it is true, that there is no one who more articulately, thoughtfully or respectfully articulates the traditional LDS view than does LA. The other thing that distinguishes him is that he will engage in dialog and not immediately roll his eyes and move on to other things.

I'm just publicly pausing to note how valuable I find your perspective LA and I hope that you enjoy these discussions too. I hope you know that for many of us (excluding our beloved apostates) these are exercises in finding equilibrium under the banner of the church, not attempts to deride it or find a door. There are doors aplenty and I never intend to walk through any of them.

It is also worth saying that the existence of this website is justified by LA and SU in dialog even if none of the rest of us ever made a peep. For me this thread is an example of CUF at its best.

+1. Thanks for stating what, I am sure, many of us feel.

[Clark Addison]

Now I think you're going too far. If we can agree that sexual relationships are one of the most potentially fulfilling and rewarding experiences we can have, both for their bonding potential and procreative powers, and we can agree that pornography can act as a very weak substitute, preventing people from seeking the much more satisfying real thing and/or sabotaging its experience, then I think it's pretty clear that pornography use represents something a little more significant than television or bicycle riding.

This is kind of where I was trying to go earlier. I think that certainly all agree that it CAN act as a weak substitute. I think the disagreement is on how common that is. LA Ute and others have said that it is very common, and I have no reason to think that is not true, but on the other hand, I have seen nothing other than anecdotes to prove it. I think SU's comparison to video games is a good one. Many of my non-Mormon friends feel that Porn is no more likely to ruin your life than video games. I really don't have any data to tell me which viewpoint is closer to the truth.

[myboynoah]

Okay, so what have we learned?

Everyone but RF says that porn is not a good thing.

SU thinks it is not a good thing like riding a bicycle is not a good thing.

Many seem to think that only Mormons think porn is not a good thing.

Many think that The Church, by saying emphatically on many occasions that porn is not a good thing, is actually a factor in bringing about the not so good things that it warns will come from porn.

LA is carrying more than his load in this discussion.

Many men are real idiots.

[wuapinmon]

I'm sorry but a third or fourth hand account related by an anonymous person on the Internet citing disgruntled former girlfriends and spouses falls in the category of urban legend.

Then what in the hell did you want? I know him, my dad fired him. If you're not going to accept a response from someone on the 'internet,' then why even ask?

[marsupial]

Many pages back someone wanted a female response. I was wondering if you were still interested?

OK, like it or not. Here it is.

I don't know these Mormon women who place porn on the same level as adultery. I don't know that I have ever thought that or been taught that. I am sure they exist, but I don't think they are the average Mormon wife.

While I know there of plenty of women who are into porn or at least don't mind that their husbands view porn, I think most women in and out of the church would prefer if their husbands didn't watch it. Most of us are a little insecure and would prefer not to be compared to the professionals .

I had a friend, non-Mormon, who's husband had a quite a stash of porn. It bothered her that he watched so much of it and she talked to him about it. But her libido took a nose-dive after having kids and he said, "Well, you never have sex with me. This is all I can do to stay faithful to you." She shrugged and said OK. I guess it didn't bother her enough to do her part.

I am insecure, possessive and jealous. I want danimal to be hot for me and me only, so knowing that he was getting off on other women (even two-dimensional women on the computer screen) would really hurt... not as much as if he was having an affair, but it would still drive a wedge between us and damage our intimate relationship.

I know that therapists often use porn to help patients with sexual dysfunction. So like most things the prophet tells us to avoid, porn has some benefit. In most cases, I think it is just detrimental.

Also, someone mentioned that most men would prefer to have a healthy intimate relationship with their wife over porn. I think porn starts a deteriorating cycle in an intimate relationship. The husband starts using porn, the wife starts feeling like she's not good enough, sexy enough, etc. and doesn't feel like having sex, the husband isn't getting sex so he continues with the porn...

[SeattleUte]

Many pages back someone wanted a female response. I was wondering if you were still interested?

OK, like it or not. Here it is.

I don't know these Mormon women who place porn on the same level as adultery. I don't know that I have ever thought that or been taught that. I am sure they exist, but I don't think they are the average Mormon wife.

While I know there of plenty of women who are into porn or at least don't mind that their husbands view porn, I think most women in and out of the church would prefer if their husbands didn't watch it. Most of us are a little insecure and would prefer not to be compared to the professionals .

I had a friend, non-Mormon, who's husband had a quite a stash of porn. It bothered her that he watched so much of it and she talked to him about it. But her libido took a nose-dive after having kids and he said, "Well, you never have sex with me. This is all I can do to stay faithful to you." She shrugged and said OK. I guess it didn't bother her enough to do her part.

I am insecure, possessive and jealous. I want danimal to be hot for me and me only, so knowing that he was getting off on other women (even two-dimensional women on the computer screen) would really hurt... not as much as if he was having an affair, but it would still drive a wedge between us and damage our intimate relationship.

I know that therapists often use porn to help patients with sexual dysfunction. So like most things the prophet tells us to avoid, porn has some benefit. In most cases, I think it is just detrimental.

Also, someone mentioned that most men would prefer to have a healthy intimate relationship with their wife over porn. I think porn starts a deteriorating cycle in an intimate relationship. The husband starts using porn, the wife starts feeling like she's not good enough, sexy enough, etc. and doesn't feel like having sex, the husband isn't getting sex so he continues with the porn...

I like your honest response, even if your last paragraph is not consistent with the anecdote about your friend. From everything I've learned about you, though, it seems there's no reason porn should interest Danimal.

[LA Ute]

SU and Robin: When you jump into threads among believing members of the church (or any church, for that matter) in which the members are trying to figure out how best to live their beliefs, and you simply make snarky comments about the belief in question, do you realize what jackasses you look like?

Having cooled off somewhat, I'll amend this statement to say, "do you realize how silly you look?"

Meanwhile, I think one of my other comments is absolutely brilliant - - and deserves response:

I also think it is a little amusing to see bunch of men here agreeing that women overreact to their husband's use of porn. . . . For the guys to say, "Oh, come on, ladies, chill out," seems a little, well, like something men would do.

[LA Ute]

What about this one?

Typo! I meant hand-to-hand combat, you pervert.