Latest Stats and Facts on Punography

[RobinFinderson]

Unless I am mistaken, RobinFinderson is the only poster that has come out in favor of porn as a serious martial aid.

He has also revealed that he expects his son to do all kinds of drugs and that when the time comes, he hopes that they get high together.

So I would take it for what it's worth.

As I've stated in a different thread, I don't think our overarching wishes for our children are substantially different. Our approaches are different. It would be cool if there were some way to measure the effectiveness of our different approaches. Like I've said elsewhere, I accept that my approach isn't common, but from what I can see, the common approach isn't very effective.

I would like to see the study that explores porn and drug use in the lives of those people who have been baptized into the LDS church. The study would have to include active, inactive, apostate, and former members. The goal would be to measure the effect of significant exposure to Mormonism on one's view of drugs and porn. From what little I know about porn/drug use among all people with Mormon roots, I wouldn't be comfortable guessing that the church, on the whole, has a positive impact. It probably does among those who remain active, but most people don't remain active.

[Jeff Lebowski]

LOL! Your best line ever. Yes, that might be seen as damning with faint praise, but it really is a great line in anybody's book!

That was a great post. I don't agree with it, but it made me laugh.

[SeattleUte]

The worst thing about the over the top reaction to porn is that it obscures root causes of "porn addiction." Porn becomes the bogeyman for all kinds of societal and personal ills. Take the guy LA described who on his mission would wander off into the private reaches of investigators' and members' homes and fire up their computers and search for porn. That guy was truly messed up. No doubt it's bizarre, wrong and creepy to engage in that behavior. But I have a feeling we're not getting the whole story. Likewise, I have a feeling most husbands would rather have a close, intimate relationship with their wives than look at celluloid of other people having sex.

Maybe I don't have the porn addiction gene. If I see a sexual scene in a film I don't suddenly become alarmed that I'll get hopelessly addicted. Indeed, it gets boring really fast. But I've never been addicted to anything, except work and other poeple. I think the worst concrete thing about porn is it motivates to go find the real thing.

The stories I hear about porn addiction seem to me to be urban legends. I've heard of the guys who overload their work computer servers with porn, run up huge credit card debt looking at porn, stop working because they're in the thrall of porn. Those seem to me urban legends, or, highly bizarre and rare behavior where someone is suffering from some deeper underlyinc compulsive disorder.

Can somebody give me a real, documented case history of someone who was well adjusted, had it all, happy marriage, etc., and dabbled in porn, the curiosity went horribly wrong, he wound up losing it all, all because of porn addiction? I think these stories are just more disregard for truth, which I guess is ultimately what bugs me about this. The lack of attention to truth vs. fable.

[DU Ute]

I think porn is a much bigger problem than over-the-top reactions to it are. That seems to me an odd thing to worry about. Just my opinion.

In this fairly definitive talk on the spiritual aspects of the subject, Pres. Hinckley does not teach that viewing porn is the equivalent of adultery. That is what seems like a straw man to me. Who is saying that, other than people in anecdotal accounts? Is that being taught by GAs somewhere? (Serious question, I don't know.)

BTW, re the story in Pres. Hinckley's talk, I am on the wife's side. Her response does not seem over the top to me at all.

I think some of this thinking stems from Matthew 5:28

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

The worst thing about the over the top reaction to porn is that it obscures root causes of "porn addiction." Porn becomes the bogeyman for all kinds of societal and personal ills. Take the guy LA described who on his mission would wander off into the private reaches of investigators' and members' homes and fire up their computers and search for porn. That guy was truly messed up. No doubt it's bizarre, wrong and creepy to engage in that behavior. But I have a feeling we're not getting the whole story. Likewise, I have a feeling most husbands would rather have a close, intimate relationship with their wives than look at celluloid of other people having sex.

Maybe I don't have the porn addiction gene. If I see a sexual scene in a film I don't suddenly become alarmed that I'll get hopelessly addicted. Indeed, it gets boring really fast. But I've never been addicted to anything, except work and other poeple. I think the worst concrete thing about porn is it motivates to go find the real thing.

The stories I hear about porn addiction seem to me to be urban legends. I've heard of the guys who overload their work computer servers with porn, run up huge credit card debt looking at porn, stop working because they're in the thrall of porn. Those seem to me urban legends, or, highly bizarre and rare behavior where someone is suffering from some deeper underlyinc compulsive disorder.

Can somebody give me a real, documented case history of someone who was well adjusted, had it all, happy marriage, etc., and dabbled in porn, the curiosity went horribly wrong, he wound up losing it all, all because of porn addiction? I think these stories are just more disregard for truth, which I guess is ultimately what bugs me about this. The lack of attention to truth vs. fable.

Well, there was Christie Brinkley's husband who spent $30k per month on porn. But that guy sounded like he had more significant problems. A coworker of mine knew a guy in college that was hopelessly addicted to porn and it really limited how he functioned. But, as you said, these cases probably point more to an underlying compulsive behavior problem as opposed to porn being the core underlying issue. The real question is whether these guys would have similar problems if porn weren't available to them. I'm not sure how to answer that.

[scottie]

Well, there was Christie Brinkley's husband who spent $30k per month on porn. But that guy sounded like he had more significant problems. A coworker of mine knew a guy in college that was hopelessly addicted to porn and it really limited how he functioned. But, as you said, these cases probably point more to an underlying compulsive behavior problem as opposed to porn being the core underlying issue. The real question is whether these guys would have similar problems if porn weren't available to them. I'm not sure how to answer that.

This is from the article that Lebowski linked:

between 1980 and 2004, an era in which porn became more available, and in more varieties, the rate of reported sexual violence dropped, and by 85 percent. Correlation isn’t necessarily causation, but the sharpness of the decline at least suggests that porn may reduce sexual violence, by providing an outlet for some potential sex offenders.

[scottie]

Well, there was Christie Brinkley's husband who spent $30k per month on porn. But that guy sounded like he had more significant problems. A coworker of mine knew a guy in college that was hopelessly addicted to porn and it really limited how he functioned. But, as you said, these cases probably point more to an underlying compulsive behavior problem as opposed to porn being the core underlying issue. The real question is whether these guys would have similar problems if porn weren't available to them. I'm not sure how to answer that.

The article also mentions that Brinkley's husband was spending $3,000 a month (not $30K); still a ton of money obviously, but get your facts straight brother.

[FN Phat]

Can somebody give me a real, documented case history of someone who was well adjusted, had it all, happy marriage, etc., and dabbled in porn, the curiosity went horribly wrong, he wound up losing it all, all because of porn addiction? I think these stories are just more disregard for truth, which I guess is ultimately what bugs me about this. The lack of attention to truth vs. fable.

I have personally witness a marriage fail because of a husband's viewing of porn. Well, that and a standard sized poodle and a jar of creamy peanut butter.

[The Wankster]

I have personally witness a marriage fail because of a husband's viewing of porn. Well, that and a standard sized poodle and a jar of creamy peanut butter.

Wow, that's an image I didn't need to get.

Kind of reminds me of the time I was visiting a friends home and he asked me to do get him a shirt from their laundry room, I could hear the washing machine spinning away and walked in to find his mom sitting on the washer.

I had no idea what the hell would possess her to do that so I questioned some people what was up, and was pretty surprised by thier answer.

She kind of avoided me for awhile after that, hmmmm........ I wonder why?

[wuapinmon]

The worst thing about the over the top reaction to porn is that it obscures root causes of "porn addiction." Porn becomes the bogeyman for all kinds of societal and personal ills. Take the guy LA described who on his mission would wander off into the private reaches of investigators' and members' homes and fire up their computers and search for porn. That guy was truly messed up. No doubt it's bizarre, wrong and creepy to engage in that behavior. But I have a feeling we're not getting the whole story. Likewise, I have a feeling most husbands would rather have a close, intimate relationship with their wives than look at celluloid of other people having sex.

Maybe I don't have the porn addiction gene. If I see a sexual scene in a film I don't suddenly become alarmed that I'll get hopelessly addicted. Indeed, it gets boring really fast. But I've never been addicted to anything, except work and other poeple. I think the worst concrete thing about porn is it motivates to go find the real thing.

The stories I hear about porn addiction seem to me to be urban legends. I've heard of the guys who overload their work computer servers with porn, run up huge credit card debt looking at porn, stop working because they're in the thrall of porn. Those seem to me urban legends, or, highly bizarre and rare behavior where someone is suffering from some deeper underlyinc compulsive disorder.

Can somebody give me a real, documented case history of someone who was well adjusted, had it all, happy marriage, etc., and dabbled in porn, the curiosity went horribly wrong, he wound up losing it all, all because of porn addiction? I think these stories are just more disregard for truth, which I guess is ultimately what bugs me about this. The lack of attention to truth vs. fable.

A kid I went to school and Church with lost it all because of porn. He got married in the temple and my dad hired him to work for his company. My dad had to fire him when he found tens-of-thousands of images downloaded onto his work computer, he had turned his desk around so that the monitor faced away from the entry to his cubicle. According to logs, he would sit and view porn for hours a day at work. One night their infant daughter was fussy, so he volunteered to stay up with her. Awhile later his wife came downstairs to find him holding the daughter in his left arm while watching porn and masturbating with his right. They got divorced. Years later, an ex-girlfriend of mine was dating him. He would always claim to be out of town; one time he called her to tell her he was out-of-state and couldn't get home in time for a date, and then she heard the garage door of his house open (it has a distinctive chime apparently). She went over to his house, walked right in, and found him.

I'm not saying that he was this way entirely because of porn, but it had to have negatively influenced the defective personality he already had.

[LA Ute]

I'm with UD on this one--we don't have enough information. I think the wife is justified in her response, as he seems to be interested in deathbed repentance when he didn't seem too interested in changing during his entire life. But what are his real sins? Is it all pornography? Or is it the constant criticism and mistreatment? Maybe they're intertwined somewhat, but not necessarily--there are kind people who look at porn.

Four quick comments, not necessarily directed at you and UD:

Re the Pres. Hinckley story, think it is wrong-headed to start judging the wife's response or to wonder about who was right and who was wrong in that marriage. To me that misses the entire point of the story, which is a tragedy in which porn played a huge part. It's not about whether the wife's response was over the top. That her husband put her in a position where she struggled to forgive him as he died is the heart-breaking part. He sinned, she may have responded badly, but it started with porn and with him. Perhaps by now she has forgiven him. I think we men should all try very hard not to need that level of forgiveness from our wives!

I also think it is a little amusing to see bunch of men here agreeing that women overreact to their husband's use of porn. (You and UD have not done this.) For the guys to say, "Oh, come on, ladies, chill out," seems a little, well, like something men would do.

SU and Robin: When you jump into threads among believing members of the church (or any church, for that matter) in which the members are trying to figure out how best to live their beliefs, and you simply make snarky comments about the belief in question, do you realize what jackasses you look like [EDIT: I should have said, "do you realize how silly you look?"]

Finally, does anyone really think that the possibility that sexual violence has decreased as porn use has increased has anything at all to do with the spiritual aspects of the problem?

End of rant. Hope you're all having a nice day!

[jay santos]

I could be way off base and don't have any studies to support this, just an observation.

It seems for a person to develop a porn addiction it requires 1) combination of childhood trauma and inclination to obsessive/impulsive behavior (this would be generic to any addiction and include other mental disorders that include self-destructive behavior) 2) a real shame-based taboo view of porn.

Yes, it's terrible what some men do to themselves and their wives, but is the answer to clamp down on porn and preach how terrible it is? Does this create even more shame and taboo around a somewhat normal behavior and create even more porn addicts? Maybe the answer is to treat it like it's no big deal from a young age. Let males that go through that phase get their fill and let them move on? I don't know.

[scottie]

Four quick comments, not necessarily directed at you and UD:

Re the Pres. Hinckley story, think it is wrong-headed to start judging the wife's response or to wonder about who was right and who was wrong in that marriage. To me that misses the entire point of the story, which is a tragedy in which porn played a huge part. It's not about whether the wife's response was over the top. That her husband put her in a position where she struggled to forgive him as he died is the heart-breaking part. He sinned, she may have responded badly, but it started with porn and with him. Perhaps by now she has forgiven him. I think we men should all try very hard not to need that level of forgiveness from our wives!

I also think it is a little amusing to see bunch of men here agreeing that women overreact to their husband's use of porn. (You and UD have not done this.) For the guys to say, "Oh, come on, ladies, chill out," seems a little, well, like something men would do.

SU and Robin: When you jump into threads among believing members of the church (or any church, for that matter) in which the members are trying to figure out how best to live their beliefs, and you simply make snarky comments about the belief in question, do you realize what jackasses you look like?

Finally, does anyone really think that the possibility that sexual violence has decreased as porn use has increased has anything at all to do with the spiritual aspects of the problem?

End of rant. Hope you're all having a nice day!

LA, what about people providing information and perspective that balances a thread?

[TripletDaddy]

LA, what about people providing information and perspective that balances a thread?

zing!

[Indy Coug]

LA, what about people providing information and perspective that balances a thread?

There's a difference between sharing different viewpoints and pathologicial gainsaying and derision.