Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[hostile]

Like drunk texting, or maybe posting something as ridiculous as this?

One of the classic blunders, next to never fighting a land war in Asia, is never take an indefensible position in a debate. I don't know how much you drank in college, but college drinkers drink to get drunk, and when the more they drink, the more they want to drink. They stop not because they think they should, but because it's late, they're out of booze, or they are tired. My experience is admittedly anecdotal, but it's based on a fairly large sample size. Further, almost 40% of criminals under state or federal supervision were under the influence of alcohol when they committed a crime. Try telling them that alcohol didn't influence their behavior and that they would have committed the crime if they had been sober.

I've missed this place.

Yeah, I don't recall a lot of socially responsible drinking in college. I recall dealing with several people to prevent them from doing something they wouldn't normally do - urinate in the middle of the floor; urinate on someone else; drive; go home with someone, etc.

[LiveCoug]

Yeah, I don't recall a lot of socially responsible drinking in college. I recall dealing with several people to prevent them from doing something they wouldn't normally do - urinate in the middle of the floor; urinate on someone else; drive; go home with someone, etc.

They would have done the same exact things if they were sober!

This thread is funkmazing.

[smokymountainrain]

[old_gregg]

Yeah, I don't recall a lot of socially responsible drinking in college. I recall dealing with several people to prevent them from doing something they wouldn't normally do - urinate in the middle of the floor; urinate on someone else; drive; go home with someone, etc.

but he would have peed on that guy while sober too!

[tooblue]

Yeah, I don't recall a lot of socially responsible drinking in college. I recall dealing with several people to prevent them from doing something they wouldn't normally do - urinate in the middle of the floor; urinate on someone else; drive; go home with someone, etc.

I work on a college/university campus. Currently in my office, taking a break from grading and happening upon this thread, I took a walk: I couldn't get ten feet in any direction without seeing one of the posters below. Wish I could say these posters; the information sessions for students at orientation; the monthly training dorm/residence managers receive; the training faculty and support staff receive annually made a difference. But it doesn't—the rate of sexual assaults will be unchanged and likely will have increased. Despite the money being spent to educate and provide counselling. Why? Alcohol consumption.

My next all-day training session touching on this subject, among many other similar subjects is on May 8. I've attended such sessions for sixteen years. Again, we will be provided access to information and studies like this one, that do not perpetuate rape culture, but rather are designed to simply report the facts:

https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publicati...25-1/43-51.htm

The purpose is so that I, as faculty, know how to help a student who has been assaulted receive the support and assistance they need. As I have done nearly every year for at least the past ten years. It's naive to believe other colleges or universities everywhere don't act similarly.

consent1.jpgconsent2.jpgconsent3.jpgconsent4.jpgconsent5.jpg

[Uncle Ted]

Drinking doesn't fundamentally change who you are and it doesn't compel you to do things you ordinary wouldn't.

Not everyone who drinks does so to get intoxicated. It is absolutely possible to have a drink without it impairing judgment. You can make rational decisions while drinking responsibly.

I am worried about you funk... Seek help brother.

You Booze, You Lose: Even Small Amount Of Alcohol Affects Driving Skills

For most drinkers, knowing when to say when occurs a lot quicker than they think. A study by Texas A&M University's Center for Alcohol and Drug Education Studies shows that even a small amount of alcohol - in many cases, as few as one or two beers - can seriously affect judgment and driving decisions.
[...]

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0919065955.htm

[Flystripper]

strange conversation. Alcohol impairs judgement, which impacts the ability to give and receive consent. Duh. What I think Funk was trying to make clear (although I don't think anyone here was disputing his point) is that if you are a guy who would never tackle a woman, throw her in the bushes, and rape her, alcohol won't result in you become a person who will do this. I think this is true, but as everyone here knows, there are many other situations that constitute rape than the attack in a park while walking home.

This seems so obvious, I don't really know why I wrote it.

[Moliere]

Are we to the point yet that couples need to sign a consent statement prior to sex? Maybe they'll also need a breathalyzer test as well to make sure the statement is valid. And people think dealing with a condom is annoying....


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[Jeff Lebowski]

strange conversation. Alcohol impairs judgement, which impacts the ability to give and receive consent. Duh. What I think Funk was trying to make clear (although I don't think anyone here was disputing his point) is that if you are a guy who would never tackle a woman, throw her in the bushes, and rape her, alcohol won't result in you become a person who will do this. I think this is true, but as everyone here knows, there are many other situations that constitute rape than the attack in a park while walking home.

This seems so obvious, I don't really know why I wrote it.

So that funk can read your post and rather than take the lifeline you are offering and pretend that that is what he meant, he will double-down again with his indefensible argument.

[myboynoah]

Let me pile on funk the dope. My grandfather was a giving drunk. He would get paid, then head to the bar and end up using up a lot of the paycheck buying rounds for the house well into the evening. His and his marriage's salvation was when he joined The Church and turned his back on all of that.

Alcohol absolutely impairs judgement and thinking. A big reason people drink is to lower their inhibitions. And in the context of this discussion, U.S. high school and college students drink to get drunk. Then stupidness happens.

[cougjunkie]

Let me pile on funk the dope. My grandfather was a giving drunk. He would get paid, then head to the bar and end up using up a lot of the paycheck buying rounds for the house well into the evening. His and his marriage's salvation was when he joined The Church and turned his back on all of that.

Alcohol absolutely impairs judgement and thinking. A big reason people drink is to lower their inhibitions. And in the context of this discussion, U.S. high school and college students drink to get drunk. Then stupidness happens.

Good chance Funk was drunk when responding to these posts. So maybe we should give him a pass for his stupidity.

[MartyFunkhouser]

strange conversation. Alcohol impairs judgement, which impacts the ability to give and receive consent. Duh. What I think Funk was trying to make clear (although I don't think anyone here was disputing his point) is that if you are a guy who would never tackle a woman, throw her in the bushes, and rape her, alcohol won't result in you become a person who will do this. I think this is true, but as everyone here knows, there are many other situations that constitute rape than the attack in a park while walking home.

This seems so obvious, I don't really know why I wrote it.

Here is where I ask for the Austin Collie treatment from BYU fans. Rather than take the actual words I said at face value, interpret them in a more reasonable way and intent of what was actually being said.

Let me see if I can make my point more clearly. Yes, alcohol impairs and effects your judgment when you become intoxicated. That impairment isn't going to happen at the low levels of alcohol consumption, which I understand isn't what is going on at colleges. If you have a shot of whiskey, a glass of beer, or a glass of wine with your dinner, you aren't going to have impaired judgment or be affected in any meaningful way. There is a certainly level of demonization of even this type of alcohol consumption on this board. I fully support education and training on the dangers of excessive alcohol consumption.

I stand by my comment, even heavy alcohol consumption doesn't fundamentally change who you are as a person. A person isn't going to change from a good person to an asshole because of alcohol. It does enhance and exacerbate certainly personality characteristics. Yes, it can affect how you are viewing consent and could lead to a misinterpretation of the situation. I do think those are the rare cases though.

What is much more likely is the Brock Turner type. Brock Turner is a horrible person who rapes women. His intoxication was probably a factor in what happened. However, he was an asshole who was going to take what he wanted regardless of his level of intoxication. We shouldn't let this type of person be excused from his behavior saying he was drunk (not that anyone is really trying to excuse him here). The concern though is when we focus too much on the role of alcohol in a rape, it leads to situations where we are too often giving someone a pass or minimizing a rape. For example, shaka's use of the term "accidental rape." The word accidental should never be a descriptor for a rape. There is no such thing as an "accidental rape." It is either sex or rape, there isn't an in between here. You had consent or you didn't.

[Topper]

Are we to the point yet that couples need to sign a consent statement prior to sex? Maybe they'll also need a breathalyzer test as well to make sure the statement is valid. And people think dealing with a condom is annoying....


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Much more complex world.

Bill O'Reilly makes no sense to me. Dude, find a willing partner, as I am sure there would have been plenty for you.

[old_gregg]

The word accidental should never be a descriptor for a rape. There is no such thing as an "accidental rape." It is either sex or rape, there isn't an in between here. You had consent or you didn't.

Drunk women can't consent to sexual contact.

seems like a pretty clear scenario in which an accidental rape could occur bro

[cougjunkie]

Here is where I ask for the Austin Collie treatment from BYU fans. Rather than take the actual words I said at face value, interpret them in a more reasonable way and intent of what was actually being said.

Let me see if I can make my point more clearly. Yes, alcohol impairs and effects your judgment when you become intoxicated. That impairment isn't going to happen at the low levels of alcohol consumption, which I understand isn't what is going on at colleges. If you have a shot of whiskey, a glass of beer, or a glass of wine with your dinner, you aren't going to have impaired judgment or be affected in any meaningful way. There is a certainly level of demonization of even this type of alcohol consumption on this board. I fully support education and training on the dangers of excessive alcohol consumption.

I stand by my comment, even heavy alcohol consumption doesn't fundamentally change who you are as a person. A person isn't going to change from a good person to an asshole because of alcohol. It does enhance and exacerbate certainly personality characteristics. Yes, it can affect how you are viewing consent and could lead to a misinterpretation of the situation. I do think those are the rare cases though.

What is much more likely is the Brock Turner type. Brock Turner is a horrible person who rapes women. His intoxication was probably a factor in what happened. However, he was an asshole who was going to take what he wanted regardless of his level of intoxication. We shouldn't let this type of person be excused from his behavior saying he was drunk (not that anyone is really trying to excuse him here). The concern though is when we focus too much on the role of alcohol in a rape, it leads to situations where we are too often giving someone a pass or minimizing a rape. For example, shaka's use of the term "accidental rape." The word accidental should never be a descriptor for a rape. There is no such thing as an "accidental rape." It is either sex or rape, there isn't an in between here. You had consent or you didn't.

LOL.