Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[Goatnapper'96]

Translation: nothing should be done because these are good white folks.

I am insanely jealous of humans able to kill a deer - legalities be damned!

What does their color have to do with their supposed crime? Am I racist because the only poachers I know are white and poaching/burning up forest land doesn't bother me a great deal?

[Moliere]

Translation: nothing should be done because these are good white folks.

I certainly don't agree that they should serve 5 years in a federal prison for burning 130 acres...especially 130 acres near Burns, Oregon.

[Moliere]

"Prosecutors said the Hammonds set a fire that burned about 130 acres in 2001 to cover up poaching. They were sentenced to five years in prison." http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/03/us/ore...efuge-protest/

Their sentence had nothing to do with the poaching allegation, which allegation it seems didn't hold water in federal court. They were convicted of arson and it looks like they even plead guilty and paid the fine on top of the initial prison sentence. I support them fighting back against the 5'year prison sentence. Seems cruel and unusual to lock someone up for that long for burning a small patch of federal land.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I certainly don't agree that they should serve 5 years in a federal prison for burning 130 acres...especially 130 acres near Burns, Oregon.

Seems like they should change the name to No Fire, Oregon or something.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I certainly don't agree that they should serve 5 years in a federal prison for burning 130 acres...especially 130 acres near Burns, Oregon.

Excellent point, moli. Harsh sentencing never happens to black folks.

Can you imagine if everyone who disagreed with a sentence grabbed their guns and took over a federal facility? And these idiots think they are supporting the constitution.

[Moliere]

Excellent point, moli. Harsh sentencing never happens to black folks.

Can you imagine if everyone who disagreed with a sentence grabbed their guns and took over a federal facility? And these idiots think they are supporting the constitution.

What made this a racial issue?

[Eddie]

What made this a racial issue?

Hey! Black Lives Matter!

[Omaha 680]

I will preface this post by saying I don't know the specifics of the current case or protest. While I am sympathetic to narratives of government abuse, these guys are morons to bring guns into a protest like this. Even if your cause is just it is extremely dangerous to pull crap like this.

[Jeff Lebowski]

What made this a racial issue?

I think we ought to be very careful using expressions like "whose contributions to society have historically far outweighed all the dope dealers the President has been falling all over himself to let out prison early" when defending these people. I like goatnapper so I will give him the benefit of the doubt here. But he deserves to be tweaked for giving up on BYU football.

Back to your argument, do you honestly think actions like this are justified when one disagrees with a sentence? Do you think that is consistent with the constitution?

[Goatnapper'96]

I think we ought to be very careful using expressions like "whose contributions to society have historically far outweighed all the dope dealers the President has been falling all over himself to let out prison early" when defending these people. I like goatnapper so I will give him the benefit of the doubt here. But he deserves to be tweaked for giving up on BYU football.

Back to your argument, do you honestly think actions like this are justified when one disagrees with a sentence? Do you think that is consistent with the constitution?

Was every dope dealer the President commuted sentences for black, I believe it was a racial issue to him, but I haven't followed any statistical analysis of those he released, where they all black? This is not a racial issue to me I honestly believe the two ranchers who are going to prison likely contributed more to society than the folks who languished in prison, far longer than they should have regardless of their ethnicity, for dealing drugs.

When they frock you people do they turn you into eunuchs before the ceremony or after?

[Jeff Lebowski]

Was every dope dealer the President commuted sentences for black, I believe it was a racial issue to him, but I haven't followed any statistical analysis of those he released, where they all black? This is not a racial issue to me I honestly believe the two ranchers who are going to prison likely contributed more to society than the folks who languished in prison, far longer than they should have regardless of their ethnicity, for dealing drugs.

Lots of stats here if you are interested:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Race....inY9ixrA.dpbs

"Compared to Non-blacks, California’s African-American population are 4 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana, 12 times more likely to be imprisoned for a marijuana felony arrest, and 3 times more likely to be imprisoned per marijuana possession arrest. Overall, as Figure 3 illustrates, these disparities accumulate to 10 times’ greater odds of an African-American being imprisoned for marijuana than other racial/ethnic groups."

My openly racist brother routinely uses "dope dealer" when referring to blacks all the time, and usually with a reference to Obama mixed in. You might want to pick a different comparison.

Or not. Whatever.

[Northwestcoug]

From the CNN article Pelado linked above:

"Five years ago, a federal grand jury charged Dwight and Steven Hammond with committing arson on public lands and endangering firefighters," Williams wrote for the newspaper. "Steven Hammond was also found guilty of committing a second arson in 2006."

The prosecutor said witnesses saw the Hammonds illegally slaughter a herd of deer on public land.

"At least seven deer were shot with others limping or running from the scene," Williams wrote.

He said a teenage relative of the Hammonds testified that Steven Hammond gave him a box of matches and told him to start the blaze. "The fires destroyed evidence of the deer slaughter and took about 130 acres of public land out of public use for two years," the prosecutor wrote.

Williams also disputed the notion that the Hammonds were prosecuted as terrorists, as Bundy suggested.

"The jury was neither asked if the Hammonds were terrorists, nor were defendants ever charged with or accused of terrorism," Williams wrote. "Suggesting otherwise is simply flat-out wrong."

There is a 'Conservative Tribune' or something article circulating around my more federal government-loathing FB friends. It claims that there was a vendetta against the Hammonds by either the DA or other federales in Burns, and that is the only reason why they were retried and received the harsher sentence. My wife read it last night, and she said it insinuates that the poaching is a BS allegation.

5 years does sound like a harsh sentence. But if a jury believed that they committed arson to cover up the poaching, I am inclined to believe CNN over the Conservative Tribune.

[Goatnapper'96]

Lots of stats here if you are interested:

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Race....inY9ixrA.dpbs



My openly racist brother routinely uses "dope dealer" when referring to blacks all the time, and usually with a reference to Obama mixed in. You might want to pick a different comparison.

Or not. Whatever.

Jeff you are smart guy so follow me here:

People go to jail for a ridiculous long time for dealing drugs. This is a huge issue to President Obama and AG Holder because of how much it disproportionately affected the black community. They come up with a plan to fix it. I am in the camp who thinks these sentences were crazy. I could care less what color the people are who benefit from the change. However, I was alluding to the argument put forth that it was stupid to lock up non violent dope dealers and waste resources on these folks in prison. IIRC that was the argument put forth not that this is unfair treatment by you whiteys towards black folks because more black folks are going to jail and thus it is unfair. That might be an argument that liberals/eagletarians buy into but the argument I remember resonating enough to build the momentum for its actions was that the sentences did not fit the crime and this was costing us all regardless of the ethnicity of those who committed the crimes. Hence, I applied the same argument on behalf of redneck crazy right wingers and my favorite poster (admittedly your competition is not particularly stiff) came in screaming: Waaaaaa....you only want these guys coddled because they are whiteys...waaaaa..waaaaa!

My apologies about your brother but I am clearly an equal opportunity asshole.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Jeff you are smart guy so follow me here:

People go to jail for a ridiculous long time for dealing drugs. This is a huge issue to President Obama and AG Holder because of how much it disproportionately affected the black community. They come up with a plan to fix it. I am in the camp who thinks these sentences were crazy. I could care less what color the people are who benefit from the change. However, I was alluding to the argument put forth that it was stupid to lock up non violent dope dealers and waste resources on these folks in prison. IIRC that was the argument put forth not that this is unfair treatment by you whiteys towards black folks because more black folks are going to jail and thus it is unfair. That might be an argument that liberals/eagletarians buy into but the argument I remember resonating enough to build the momentum for its actions was that the sentences did not fit the crime and this was costing us all regardless of the ethnicity of those who committed the crimes. Hence, I applied the same argument on behalf of redneck crazy right wingers and my favorite poster (admittedly your competition is not particularly stiff) came in screaming: Waaaaaa....you only want these guys coddled because they are whiteys...waaaaa..waaaaa!

My apologies about your brother but I am clearly an equal opportunity asshole.

I agree that the war on drugs and sentencing guidelines for drug crimes are crazy. If all these ranchers did was burn some weeds then I agree that the sentence was too harsh. But you are arguing that they should be treated differently than the drug dealers because they make "a greater contribution to society". And remember that this is in the context of an armed takeover of a federal facility. Why even make that comparison in the first place? Shouldn't justice be blind?

Also, it appears that these ranchers were given a full jury trial in rural Oregon. Do you think the judicial system in that region would be unfairly biased against these folks?

[Goatnapper'96]

I agree that the war on drugs and sentencing guidelines for drug crimes are crazy. If all these ranchers did was burn some weeds then I agree that the sentence was too harsh. But you are arguing that they should be treated differently than the drug dealers because they make "a greater contribution to society". And remember that this is in the context of an armed takeover of a federal facility. Why even make that comparison in the first place? Shouldn't justice be blind?

Also, it appears that these ranchers were given a full jury trial in rural Oregon. Do you think the judicial system in that region would be unfairly biased against these folks?

I am not talking about the folks taking over the government building out in Burns, which I think there was a Duck qb from Burns who made the NFL. I am referencing the two ranchers going to prison for arson, who are not the same folks taking over the building. If you read my posts I am critical of that groups methods and believe their emphasis on guns is taking attention away from the real issue/grievance by turning this into Timmy and Duute whine on my facebook about you not doing enough about it.

My opinion on the ranchers is that they should pay some restitution for what damage they did to federal land and some as well if they did in fact poach. I just think the prison sentence is similarly crazy to the prison sentences given to dope dealers of all colors.