Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in the News

[CardiacCoug]

Well, actually, you might be right a little about me, and maybe that's why I feel so sad for this woman and her kids. Had alcohol had a real appeal for me, I easily could have been her (well, not quite, but you get the idea). Not drinking wasn't a decision I made for any good rational reason--it was because I thought God didn't want me to (or maybe I just wanted to fit in at BYU). Once that whole idea fell, if alcohol had been appealing, I don't really want to think about how I might have pursued it.

I don't disagree with you that in an ideal world, no one would start drinking young. In fact, I think I said as much in a thread I started about a new word of wisdom that should replace our current bizarre one--25 was the age I suggested. But that decision needs to come from within, based on rational thinking and a healthy respect for the dangers of alcohol, not from an external religious authority. The problem with the Mormon approach is that 1) alcohol is strictly forbidden, giving it an extra appeal it doesn't really deserve and 2) "thus saith the Lord" sort of discourages any rational thinking (think teenage pregnancy and STDs in religious communities). Overall, maybe the Mormon approach leads to lower levels of alcoholism in the aggregate, but on the individual level, it can get really ugly.

I don't think every kid should try alcohol at 21, but I do think they should make the decision rationally and free of any religious overtones. If you're going to experiment, do it when you're not going to hurt anyone but yourself. Call it the Rumspringa approach.

Of course, bad decisions happen in and out of Mormonism. I honestly don't have any advice for the Church, except that I think sending out missionaries at 18 as a rule is a really bad idea. All I really care about is my kids, and I see this woman's story as a warning sign against overly restrictive/moralistic parenting. Really, all I originally said was that I wish she had done this in college instead. That's not really debatable, is it?

I agree with everything you wrote there except with the idea that if she had experience with drinking in college it would have prevented this. It would have increased her risk for problem drinking later in life.

[creekster]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm doing.


Another one that I can't believe I didn't think of earlier. I know him really well. No drinks until his 30s, now has 3 duis, no drivers license, and is waiting for a court date to determine how long he'll be in jail. Oh, and started shortly after his divorce. And his three kids are now permanently with their mother.

Of course, none of this implies that not drinking in college means you'll end up a childless alcoholic in your later years, nor even that your risk of it is higher. Of course, I never said that, but there are apparently some hackles raised, so I thought i should restate it. I did say that this should have happened in college instead, with a lot fewer victims and a lesser impact on her life. I don't think that's really debatable. Might it have prevented this? Maybe, maybe not. I definitely learned a few lessons when I was younger that prevented stupid mistakes later.

Hackles raised? Stop being so dramatic. Your premise just doesn't follow and I think you realize it. In fact if your restated idea is that we can learn things when younger that prevent stupid things later I suspect all the hackles will go down.

[Northwestcoug]

Once the decision is made to start drinking alcohol, there will be mistakes made. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if you're in college or later in life. I tend to think that those predisposed will become alcoholics, no matter when they start. For those people, it is probably a bad idea to start drinking early. For others not disposed to alcoholism, the hangovers and embarrassing situations in college may smarten them up so they don't act like idiots later.

[YOhio]

ER was right. God doesn't want him to drink.

[Color Me Badd Fan]

Ava hid from Boyd only to end up hosting sex parties and boning down with her daughter's 16 year old boyfriend? Wasn't Boyd the better alternative?

[falafel]

Where's the outrage art the AA sponsor?

[ERCougar]

Where's the outrage art the AA sponsor?

I'm bugged at the AA sponsor. She pretty much directly violated the central tenet of AA.

[Armenag]

Enjoyed this portion of a hard-hitting Atlantic piece on bikini-clad baristas:

Tammy, who wears a thick white cheerleader ribbon around her brown ponytail, is the manager at Devil’s Brew. An ex-Washington State sorority girl who lives with her Mormon parents, she says her mom told her to get a job at the coffee stand when she moved back home. “One guy last week was like, ‘Does your mom know you wear these clothes?’” she says. “I was like, ‘My mom comes here every morning!’” That’s no joke: At exactly 8 a.m. on the day I'm there, her mom pulls up to the window. As she drives away, Tammy calls after her, “Love you, Mom!”

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...myself/389760/

[Eddie]

I'm bugged at the AA sponsor. She pretty much directly violated the central tenet of AA.

I'm not so bugged. I get that there are issues of confidentiality. But when it comes to potential child sexual abuse - I don't have a problem breaking that confidentiality.

Yeah - I get that MOST of what happened at that little party of theirs could've happened in her absence with just the kids. But that's different. Providing photos or video of herself having sex with her boyfriend to her daughter? Providing sex toys? Taking one of the boys into the bathroom to have sex with him? She crossed some lines.

[ERCougar]

I'm not so bugged. I get that there are issues of confidentiality. But when it comes to potential child sexual abuse - I don't have a problem breaking that confidentiality.

Yeah - I get that MOST of what happened at that little party of theirs could've happened in her absence with just the kids. But that's different. Providing photos or video of herself having sex with her boyfriend to her daughter? Providing sex toys? Taking one of the boys into the bathroom to have sex with him? She crossed some lines.

um...she was raped. And now her identity (a sexual assault victim) has been disclosed nationally.
Yeah, it was mishandled at multiple levels.

[Bo Diddley]

um...she was raped. And now her identity (a sexual assault victim) has been disclosed nationally.
Yeah, it was mishandled at multiple levels.

And this is the AA sponsor's fault?

[ERCougar]

And this is the AA sponsor's fault?

No, that part is the police departments fault. I just said I'm bugged. I would think that as an AS sponsor, your default should be to stay anonymous, until you're sure you have a duty to report, not the other way around.

[Eddie]

um...she was raped. And now her identity (a sexual assault victim) has been disclosed nationally.
Yeah, it was mishandled at multiple levels.

Yes...she was raped. AFTER playing naked twister with kids. AFTER supplying sex toys to kids. AFTER showing pictures and video of herself having sex with her boyfriend. AFTER taking one of the boys into the bathroom to have sex earlier in the party. And I didn't even bring up the alcohol she supplied them with.

Yes, she was raped. And in that instance she was a victim.

That doesn't excuse her of EVERYTHING that happened prior to the rape. She's still responsible for that.

At least I assume that you wouldn't excuse someone of any crimes they may have committed solely because a they became victims of a violent crime after they were done breaking the law themselves?

[Bo Diddley]

No, that part is the police departments fault. I just said I'm bugged. I would think that as an AS sponsor, your default should be to stay anonymous, until you're sure you have a duty to report, not the other way around.

I agree. So you don't think she had a duty to report?

[Jeff Lebowski]

No, that part is the police departments fault. I just said I'm bugged. I would think that as an AS sponsor, your default should be to stay anonymous, until you're sure you have a duty to report, not the other way around.

You don't think there was any duty to report in that case? Seriously?