Gay and Mormon: BYU hosted panel for gay BYU students

[ERCougar]

God's purposes for the Church is to promulgate the gospel and encourage God's children to participate in ordinances. But for a variety of reasons the Church has evolved to fulfill many other purposes. However, change or the pathway to exaltation is very much an individual journey. In essence while it matters what "the Church" does, I don't think it matters as much as what the individual members do. Perhaps the Church will one day become all what you want it to be, perhaps it won't but I am not convinced either direction or endstate of the Church, as an institutional governing body, has as much bearing or influence on you or I as it is sometimes given credit. The older I get the more irrelevent I think it is in that role. My guess is you would find the individual members more closely aligned with your vision of utopia than you will find the governing body.

This is sort of where I've come to the last few years. I care less and less about what different people say at church or what goes on there. Really, I'm frustrated at leadership, but in the end, I don't think about it much outside of here. UD's right in that what really matters is that these guys feel safe enough to talk openly about it. As long as that's happening, I'm good.

Of course, BYU or the church had little to do with that happening. And the pile on Solon for a pretty benign comment pointing that out was a bit much.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Interesting responses. I mentioned earlier that I was moved by the transcript of the meeting. What moved me was the courage exhibited by these students. We can all talk the talk here in cyber-land, but it takes some real guts to do what they did. I was also moved by the stories that they told. Yes they still face long and difficult odds, but it is becoming increasingly common to encounter bishops and mission presidents and roommates who respond with empathy and love rather than shame and judgment. I was moved by the big crowd and the standing ovation at the end. Yes, this may be a minor thing for BYU and way behind the times, but what this event symbolizes is a big deal for us as an LDS people and culture. Change is occurring from the bottom up. You can use this an opportunity to lash out again at the institution and I sympathize with and understand that anger. But I think you are missing the real significance of the event.

[Maximus]

Probably it's just because as an institution the Church really doesn't care about gay young people.

And you know this how? You really think that the leaders just dont care about these people?

[Maximus]

Question:

I know the majority here think the church has a long way to go. Assuming that the church will never consider homosexual acts as anything but sin, what exactly should the church do?

Again, this is assuming the church doesnt accept gay marriage or accept homosexual acts as being okay under the law of Chasity.

[SoonerCoug]

Question:

I know the majority here think the church has a long way to go. Assuming that the church will never consider homosexual acts as anything but sin, what exactly should the church do?

Again, this is assuming the church doesnt accept gay marriage or accept homosexual acts as being okay under the law of Chasity.

Why would someone assume that? That's a silly assumption.

Give it 150 years, and gays will be getting married in the temple.

[Blueintheface]

Question:

I know the majority here think the church has a long way to go. Assuming that the church will never consider homosexual acts as anything but sin, what exactly should the church do?

Again, this is assuming the church doesnt accept gay marriage or accept homosexual acts as being okay under the law of Chasity.

If we're assuming that, wouldn't the logical answer be nothing?

[ERCougar]

Interesting responses. I mentioned earlier that I was moved by the transcript of the meeting. What moved me was the courage exhibited by these students. We can all talk the talk here in cyber-land, but it takes some real guts to do what they did. I was also moved by the stories that they told. Yes they still face long and difficult odds, but it is becoming increasingly common to encounter bishops and mission presidents and roommates who respond with empathy and love rather than shame and judgment. I was moved by the big crowd and the standing ovation at the end. Yes, this may be a minor thing for BYU and way behind the times, but what this event symbolizes is a big deal for us as an LDS people and culture. Change is occurring from the bottom up. You can use this an opportunity to lash out again at the institution and I sympathize with and understand that anger. But I think you are missing the real significance of the event.

No...no one's missing that. This is hugely encouraging to see--I can't overstate how happy it makes me to see just how many of our members are sincerely interested and accepting. I just don't think BYU is the one deserving the praise, and I'm not sure it means much for the organization. The culture? Yes--great sign.

[SeattleUte]

Interesting responses. I mentioned earlier that I was moved by the transcript of the meeting. What moved me was the courage exhibited by these students. We can all talk the talk here in cyber-land, but it takes some real guts to do what they did. I was also moved by the stories that they told. Yes they still face long and difficult odds, but it is becoming increasingly common to encounter bishops and mission presidents and roommates who respond with empathy and love rather than shame and judgment. I was moved by the big crowd and the standing ovation at the end. Yes, this may be a minor thing for BYU and way behind the times, but what this event symbolizes is a big deal for us as an LDS people and culture. Change is occurring from the bottom up. You can use this an opportunity to lash out again at the institution and I sympathize with and understand that anger. But I think you are missing the real significance of the event.

The brave gay kids deserve tons of praise. The LDS CHurch deserves none, and this is not a momentouns event in terms of any prospect that the institution may reform itself. What has it done? Simply not retaliated against these few kids who have spoken out, albeit carefully, sticking up for themselves. Not so long ago these kids would be kicked out of school and excommunicated. The only reason they're not now is the LDS Church's self-preservation inistinct.

[Jeff Lebowski]

The brave gay kids deserve tons of praise. The LDS CHurch deserves none, and this is not a momentouns event in terms of any prospect that the institution may reform itself. What has it done? Simply not retaliated against these few kids who have spoken out, albeit carefully, sticking up for themselves. Not so long ago these kids would be kicked out of school and excommunicated. The only reason they're not now is the LDS Church's self-preservation inistinct.

Was this meant to be a reply to my post? Because it seems as if you didn't even read what I wrote.

[jay santos]

Why would someone assume that? That's a silly assumption.

Give it 150 years, and gays will be getting married in the temple.

Agree

[CardiacCoug]

And you know this how? You really think that the leaders just dont care about these people?

I think that in part because they haven't taken what would be a very simple step to update lesson manuals to clarify that "homosexuality" or "same gender attraction" is NOT a sin.

If Church leaders cared about gay LDS teenagers, wouldn't that be reflected in the very small amount of effort it would take to update manuals to take out ridiculous things SWK was saying about homosexuality in the 60s? You could update all the manuals in a few hours but nobody has done that. Draw your own conclusions.

[DrumNFeather]

Interesting responses. I mentioned earlier that I was moved by the transcript of the meeting. What moved me was the courage exhibited by these students. We can all talk the talk here in cyber-land, but it takes some real guts to do what they did. I was also moved by the stories that they told. Yes they still face long and difficult odds, but it is becoming increasingly common to encounter bishops and mission presidents and roommates who respond with empathy and love rather than shame and judgment. I was moved by the big crowd and the standing ovation at the end. Yes, this may be a minor thing for BYU and way behind the times, but what this event symbolizes is a big deal for us as an LDS people and culture. Change is occurring from the bottom up. You can use this an opportunity to lash out again at the institution and I sympathize with and understand that anger. But I think you are missing the real significance of the event.

Great post Jeff. As you, Ohio and others have said, I don't think it can be lost that this event took place at BYU, the (like it or not) flagship institution of the LDS church. Had this taken place even at UVU it doesn't have the same impact.

Here's the question I have...or perhaps what I wonder. This event will no doubt receive much praise and applause in and on forums like Mormon Expression and Mormon Stories (and however many other litany of forums and groups there are). What I wonder though is if those that run these sites will take advantage of these brave young LDS people and use or exploit them in an effort to push a more anti-LDS platform through the framework of this program. Calling them predators might be too strong a term for what I am trying to convey here and I would hope that this would not be the case, but when certain groups have publicly expressed a desire to bring down the LDS church or at the very least help others to want to leave...it's not a stretch to think that these people might then be a target.

My hope is that this would be seen as a positive all the way around regardless of how small a step it appears to be to some.

[Jeff Lebowski]

For all those celebrating this, I agree that it is an important step. However, it is interesting to note that nothing about this event has been reported on by the Deseret News or KSL. On the day the Des News could have reported on the event they instead went with this. Nice to have a reminder that religious folks are the ones that are really being repressed and discriminated against.

It's silly to talk about the message this sent to the members, 90% of members in Utah will probably never hear anything about this. Sorry if I side a bit more with Solon on this one.

Ahem...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ttraction.html

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1988...cid=featured-4

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53...o-byu.html.csp

[DU Ute]

Ahem...

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/7...ttraction.html

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1988...cid=featured-4

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53...o-byu.html.csp

That's great. I did searches for "gay" and "LGBT" and even went through the last few days of articles that included "BYU" on both sites and nothing came back on this. Maybe they made the articles unsearchable, or there is the small possibility I screwed something up.

[UtahDan]

Great post Jeff. As you, Ohio and others have said, I don't think it can be lost that this event took place at BYU, the (like it or not) flagship institution of the LDS church. Had this taken place even at UVU it doesn't have the same impact.

Here's the question I have...or perhaps what I wonder. This event will no doubt receive much praise and applause in and on forums like Mormon Expression and Mormon Stories (and however many other litany of forums and groups there are). What I wonder though is if those that run these sites will take advantage of these brave young LDS people and use or exploit them in an effort to push a more anti-LDS platform through the framework of this program. Calling them predators might be too strong a term for what I am trying to convey here and I would hope that this would not be the case, but when certain groups have publicly expressed a desire to bring down the LDS church or at the very least help others to want to leave...it's not a stretch to think that these people might then be a target.

My hope is that this would be seen as a positive all the way around regardless of how small a step it appears to be to some.

I'm confused by what you are saying. What exactly would that look like?