Gay and Mormon: BYU hosted panel for gay BYU students

[Clark Addison]

I agree that it's a big development at the byu, but the fact that we're doing cartwheels to celebrate a panel like this shows just how backwards the institution is/has been.

I also think this is small potatoes. Church leadership could change the culture almost instantly with a 5-minute statement from Monson. And until we see that kind of change from leadership, we have to be happy that the byu is only less homophobic than we thought.

In the meantime, I'm pleased with any progress. So, bravo to these students. I just hope dearly that they haven't ruined their lives in Provo for such a small step.

I tend to agree. I am very happy that this happened, and that it was apparently well-received.

Having said that, if I had a gay son, I would very actively discourage him from going to BYU, and this is coming from someone who thinks that the BYU experience can be a very, very positive one.

[TripletDaddy]

I agree that it's a big development at the byu, but the fact that we're doing cartwheels to celebrate a panel like this shows just how backwards the institution is/has been.

I also think this is small potatoes. Church leadership could change the culture almost instantly with a 5-minute statement from Monson. And until we see that kind of change from leadership, we have to be happy that the byu is only less homophobic than we thought.

In the meantime, I'm pleased with any progress. So, bravo to these students. I just hope dearly that they haven't ruined their lives in Provo for such a small step.

Despite last night's events, BYU still has a repressive culture towards gays, the Church could do more, and a small panel of gay students isn't really a massive undertaking after all.

What a new and refreshing angle to this otherwise pedestrian story.

[Solon]

Despite last night's events, BYU still has a repressive culture towards gays, the Church could do more, and a small panel of gay students isn't really a massive undertaking after all.

What a new and refreshing angle to this otherwise pedestrian story.

How do you see it?
Getting excited over this is like being happy your alcoholic father didn't beat the hell out of you for once. Sure, it's a nice gesture, but he's still a lousy father.

In the meantime, I hope these students don't face huge social consequences.

[OhioBlue]

I left last night feeling overall very encouraged....by the show of interest (place was packed crazy full, people sitting on the floor all around the presenters, in all the aisles, doorways, etc.), by the stories shared, and by the way the panelists handled questions.

here's another article about it that people may not have seen yet.

http://trevorantley.com/2012/04/05/byus-gay-mormon-panel-a-huge-success/

[creekster]

How do you see it?
Getting excited over this is like being happy your alcoholic father didn't beat the hell out of you for once. Sure, it's a nice gesture, but he's still a lousy father.

In the meantime, I hope these students don't face huge social consequences.

While you may have a point your attitude, and assuming your POV, which I do not share, is like ignoring that you didnt get beaten up and focusing on when it will happen again.

You want change in the BYU attitude? This is how it will happen. The only alternative whould be from some sort of angelic visitation and my guess is that you dont think that is likely. So an incremental approach is likely the best chance.

[Northwestcoug]

Having slept on this, I'm inclined to echo Solon's comments. I am happy that it is progress at BYU. I think it's great that these students can identify themselves as gay. But when compared to the progress seen in the rest of the world (and what I want to see in the church), there is still a very long way to go. There is still official repression present. From Evergreen's website:

"You did not choose to have same-sex attraction. These attractions usually develop because social and emotional needs were not met in the developmental years."

And the concious decision of most GAs who talk about this to refer it as 'Same-sex attraction', and to recommend not using 'gay' or 'homosexual' to define people.

So while I am happy for BYU, it's tempered by how much more work I think needs to be done. In the end, I wish the church would change its stance against gays more than I think most of the leadership/membership wants it to.

[lambdacoug]

I think this is a great first step. That there was so much interest shows that the stance of the church is out of line with the younger generation. I imagine it was very liberating for the gay students that had the courage to show up and out themselves at an institution that is generally not accepting of them. I salute the courage of the gay students and the straight students that came out to support them. If there is any backlash on the students that attended, then BYU will deserve any black eyes that may come its way.

[OhioBlue]

Sap? Nothing of the sort. It is a really huge deal. I felt a great deal of joy in reading it....joy for the panelists but also for the school. Change is possible. It may take a long time, but these kids are true pioneers at BYU. Very courageous. And kudos to the students and faculty in the audience as well. Sounds like a resounding success of an evening. I hope OhioBlue is able to confirm because a lot can be lost in the transcription. I'm interested in his take.

JL is not a sap, I agree. I felt a lot of things last night and was moved to tears often. The courage it takes for students to stand in a jam-packed room at BYU of all places, look out at the hundreds, and then openly share about their sexual orientation and related struggles...just awesome.

I thought the emotional mood of the event was very good. You could feel the anxiety in the air before it started, in part because of how quickly it filled up but in part just knowing that something like this has never really happened before, not on this scale. The Sociology dept chair clearly wanted to bracket the thing by highlighting the honor code and LDS principles, but I didn't feel that it took too much away from the personal sharing that came next.

There was a lot of candor and humor from the panelists, which I think helped. I will say that on occasion, a panelist would share something and everyone would laugh, and I'd find myself thinking "there's so much pain underneath that, it's really not funny" but again, this was a very minor thing I observed that didn't detract from the success of the event.

The applause following each panelist's sharing of his/her story was the first clear signal to me that the audience was almost overwhelmingly supportive. I realize it's not a random sample, but I had been curious to gauge the overall reaction. I did notice a few people that never seemed to clap or react, but they were few and far between.

The questions were handled well. The notecard format helped keep it in the presenters' control which I thought was highly appropriate. I liked that they acknowledged that they weren't even going to try to answer abstract doctrinal questions, and they kept the focus on the human experience. Again, very appropriate for what BYU and the church really needs.

I can't really think of much else to add about the content of the evening. I'll just say the energy was palpable and I came away feeling like I was part of something important, and felt very privileged to have been able to attend. The standing ovation was loud and long, and well-deserved. The organizers indicated they hope to do more of these in the future, and I share their hope. I'm quite confident that they could easily fill the JSB auditorium next time.

Overall, a definite positive step. I applaud the BYU administration for allowing this to happen, I was admittedly skeptical.

[TripletDaddy]

How do you see it?
Getting excited over this is like being happy your alcoholic father didn't beat the hell out of you for once. Sure, it's a nice gesture, but he's still a lousy father.

In the meantime, I hope these students don't face huge social consequences.

Your simile is absurd. It isn't anything like that at all.

I already stated how I see it. A baby step for BYU but a huge symbolic step, nonetheless.

Why focus on the patently obvious negative side of this story within hours of the conclusion of an otherwise great meeting?

Anyhow, lest you are dying to state more of the obvious and focus on the negative, yes, I agree that Rosa Parks didn't really do much other than refuse to switch seats. Small potatoes.

[ERCougar]

While you may have a point your attitude, and assuming your POV, which I do not share, is like ignoring that you didnt get beaten up and focusing on when it will it happen again.

You want change in the BYU attitude? This is how it will happen. The only alternative whould be from some sort of angelic visitation and my guess is that you dont think that is likely. So an incremental approach is likely the best chance.

OR...
Like Solon said, 5 minutes of conference dedicated to tolerance, specifically towards homosexuals, would do wonders. I have to think they're making a conscious decision not to and I wonder why. It wouldn't take an angelic visitation.

I'm trying to figure out what you and DDD disagree with here. He said it's a small step. It is. He said he's encouraged by the step. I think you are too. He said he hopes the kids don't face social consequences. It was a brave step and I hope they don't either. So what's the problem? The analogy? Given the state of tolerance in the rest of the world as well as what I would expect from the Lord's church, I don't think it's that extreme.

[creekster]

ONe of the interestign things for me is the contrast between how often posts here equate sex with happiness and how much more nuanced and complex was the panelists' description of the source of their happiness. Sex is clearly an issue but it is not the overiding factor in their lives.

[ERCougar]

Your simile is absurd. It isn't anything like that at all.

I already stated how I see it. A baby step for BYU but a huge symbolic step, nonetheless.

Why focus on the patently obvious negative side of this story within hours of the conclusion of an otherwise great meeting?

Anyhow, lest you are dying to state more of the obvious and focus on the negative, yes, I agree that Rosa Parks didn't really do much other than refuse to switch seats. Small potatoes.

Um...rosa parks? Flesh that one out a bit and you'll see what an absurd simile is.

[TripletDaddy]

Um...rosa parks? Flesh that one out a bit and you'll see what an absurd simile is.

that was the exact point. thanks for noticing. totally absurd, I agree.

Also, I didnt use a simile.

[ERCougar]

ONe of the interestign things for me is the contrast between how often posts here equate sex with happiness and how much more nuanced and complex was the panelists' description of the source of their happiness. Sex is clearly an issue but it is not the overiding factor in their lives.

I too picked up that message from reading the live blog. I'm definitely guilty of oversimplifying this.

[TripletDaddy]

OR...
Like Solon said, 5 minutes of conference dedicated to tolerance, specifically towards homosexuals, would do wonders. I have to think they're making a conscious decision not to and I wonder why. It wouldn't take an angelic visitation.

At the end of the session, Solon can immediately hop online and post that 5 minutes is small potatoes and it really highlights how backwards everything is in the Church.