Prayer doesn't work. Do Mormon Priesthood Blessings?

[TripletDaddy]

I hear that taught all the time. Again I have to ask, what church is it you people are attending?

"that." can you clarify?

[TripletDaddy]

That is not radical at all. Jesus is radical. He taught "ask and ye shall receive." Your teaching is quite tame by comparison.

what is my teaching?

[Jacob]

what is my teaching?

Sorry. If you don't know that. I don't see how I am going to be able to help you.

[Sleeping in EQ]

The false dichotomy of religion vs science is reinforced by both sides.

[creekster]

That is not radical at all. Jesus is radical. He taught "ask and ye shall receive." Your teaching is quite tame by comparison.

I think there is often a misunderstanding about what He meant by that promise.

[Jacob]

I think there is often a misunderstanding about what He meant by that promise.

I don't doubt it. With the blind leading the blind, what else should we expect?

[San Juan Sun]

I think hard core science attracts people who really, really, want to be right.

And soft science (like the "study" above) attracts people who really, really want to be right... but have no way of proving it. I think the Ghostbusters conducted more rigorous science.

This thread deserves the "Like anyone can even know that, Napoleon."

[The Rambam]

Saying, "we took 1000 patients and 1000 strangers and had the strangers pray for them and the results were so scattered we can only conclude that prayer doesn't work" is like saying "we took 1000 patients and 1000 strangers and had the strangers perform heart surgery on the patients and so many of them died we have concluded that heart surgery does not work."

Actually the study showed that those who knew someone was praying for them had statistically significantly worse outcomes than those for whom prayer wasn't a part of the equation. The team of doctors performing the surgeries was the same, in the same facility.

It would be fascinating to do a similar study in SLC and track outcomes for patients with and without Priesthood blessings.

[TripletDaddy]

I think there is often a misunderstanding about what He meant by that promise.

So to clarify, are you suggesting that there is no component of "ask for stuff/get the stuff you asked for" to prayer?

[SCcoug]

I hear that taught all the time. Again I have to ask, what church is it you people are attending?

Yeah, seems like someone quotes that line out of the Bible dictionary a few times a year.

[creekster]

So to clarify, are you suggesting that there is no component of "ask for stuff/get the stuff you asked for" to prayer?

While not impossible for God, it is my opinion that He very rarely interferes with the free will of his children or the natural order of matter. The key to a successful prayer is knowing what to ask for and the key to knowing what to ask for is knowing God's will. That is what Jesus means, IMO, when he tells us to be one with him as he is one with his Father in Heaven. When we want the right things, we get them.

This does not preclude some forms of answers to which you might be referring; an enlightenment from revelation, or a calmness of spirit that might allow you to remember where in the ^%$#@@ you left your car keys, for example. But those are generally different from what I understand you to be asking me about.

[TripletDaddy]

Yeah, seems like someone quotes that line out of the Bible dictionary a few times a year.

that wasn't the point I was making. I don't suggest that creekster's bible dictionary quote is absent from Church teaching. My question was whether the teaching was communicated effectively, as measured by the preponderance of belief in "ask for stuff/get stuff." While you may hear that BD quote several times a year in church, how often do you hear the Sunday School teacher clarify to everyone that asking for things through prayer isn't going to get you the things you are requesting.

[creekster]

Actually the study showed that those who knew someone was praying for them had statistically significantly worse outcomes than those for whom prayer wasn't a part of the equation. The team of doctors performing the surgeries was the same, in the same facility.

It would be fascinating to do a similar study in SLC and track outcomes for patients with and without Priesthood blessings.

ALthough that would, at miost, reflect the subjective effect and would be almost impossible to control for worthiness of the person giving the blessing.

[creekster]

that wasn't the point I was making. I don't suggest that creekster's bible dictionary quote is absent from Church teaching. My question was whether the teaching was communicated effectively, as measured by the preponderance of belief in "ask for stuff/get stuff." While you may hear that BD quote several times a year in church, how often do you hear the Sunday School teacher clarify to everyone that asking for things through prayer isn't going to get you the things you are requesting.

Thats not really what I said, although I htink that many people tend to ask for things they shouldn't.

[TripletDaddy]

The key to a successful prayer is knowing what to ask for and the key to knowing what to ask for is knowing God's will.

If the key to successful prayer is to know what to ask for (by knowing God's will beforehand), then what is the purpose of effectuating the prayer? Unless I am misunderstanding you, the person praying will already know the answer and know God's will prior to the prayer.