Prayer doesn't work. Do Mormon Priesthood Blessings?

[The Rambam]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/he...pagewanted=all

I wonder what the results would be if this study was done with Mormons and priesthood blessings.

Anyone feel strongly that the blessings would be clearly beneficial? Anyone feel they would make no difference? Anyone think that, like prayer, they would actually be harmful?

[TripletDaddy]

The Rambam, just a friendly ob, but you seem really upset or bothered about something re: the LDS Church. Want to just get it off your chest? Generally your posts are insightful with a tinge of personal panache. Lately they just seem bitter. Not Jazz fan "why did Karl miss those free throws against the Sonics in the WCF that would have sent them to the Finals" bitter but more like a Taylor Swift "why does everyone that dates me wind up dumping me" bitter. It seems more personal this time.

[taekwondave]

I'm not surprised by these findings. But I'm not convinced that prayers don't tinker with the mechanism of healing on some level. Every scientific study involving the effect of a drug accounts for the placebo effect. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, they go to great lengths to minimize that effect on their studies (double-blind, etc). Although I have seen many a priesthood blessing/prayer/special fast fail in its desired effect, I've also seen a few genuinely produce it. What some had that others did not I do not know. I don't personally adhere to the "it wasn't God's will" explanation, but I can't definitively say what the mechanism was that seemed positively active in one case versus another. Prayer, per se, may not always do the trick, no. In fact, it may rarely do so (this has been my experience), but for those times it DOES work, and I'm sure there are many on this board who have been witness to such times, I wish there were a greater effort to discover the placebo-like mechanism that was in operation in those cases so that maybe we could harness the power that lies largely dormant there, in addition to the many powers science has been able to harness in nature. Something tells me this placebo effect thingy has potentials that could startle us someday. And if so, I'll bet it wouldn't be the first time in history that kind of thing happened.

[CardiacCoug]

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/he...pagewanted=all

I wonder what the results would be if this study was done with Mormons and priesthood blessings.

Anyone feel strongly that the blessings would be clearly beneficial? Anyone feel they would make no difference? Anyone think that, like prayer, they would actually be harmful?

That link is 5 years old.

To the degree that blessings inspire hope, confidence and joy in those receiving the blessings I think there would be some benefit. Patients and families often feel a lot better after being visited by friends or after hearing something encouraging from the physician. I imagine the effect of blessings is similar -- they would improve sense of well-being and could speed healing in that way. We know depressed people don't recover as quickly from surgery. People who aren't married and have poor social support do worse after surgery -- mood and attitude make a big difference and a blessing would be part of the social support.

But any variation of the question "Can you prove God's existence through a scientific study?" is really not very sophisticated, in my opinion. Of course you can't and I don't see how any modern person could think otherwise.

[woot]

This study confirmed (6 years ago) the obvious point that prayer doesn't work to heal people. I would guess, however, that prayer has some other benefits. Meditation is great, and some types of prayer, including those favored by LDS folk, are similar in some ways to meditation.

I'm not sure if an empirical study would find that those who meditate (or pray) have lower stress, are more mindful of their impulses, etc., but I find it helps me. It has been shown that meditation helps treat depression, fwiw.

[NorthwestUteFan]

Meditation is beneficial in many ways, and prayer is a form of meditation.

The 'cure rate' for Priesthood blessings very closely tracks the cure rate for science. If you factor in the naturally occurring ~5% spontaneous cure rate for diseases, then prayer and blessings precisely follow scientific explanations.

[ERCougar]

Is it offensive to the orthodox to suggest that the purpose of prayer, and likewise blessings, isn't to effect outcomes? It seems that it doesn't take long in a praying life before one figures this out, which makes it all the more sad that mature people still look at prayer as a sort of heavenly candy machine.

[Donuthole]

heavenly candy machine.

Pretty good name for a band or a fantasy football team. Also a nice CUF sub-moniker.

[CardiacCoug]

Is it offensive to the orthodox to suggest that the purpose of prayer, and likewise blessings, isn't to effect outcomes? It seems that it doesn't take long in a praying life before one figures this out, which makes it all the more sad that mature people still look at prayer as a sort of heavenly candy machine.

I think you could say that a blessing changes outcomes only by affecting the attitude and mood of those involved with a blessing. Something people say regarding blessings that seems true is that they work in accordance with the faith of the person receiving the blessing and those giving the blessing. The "placebo effect" (in the positive sense) of a Priesthood blessing helps the patient if he thinks it will work or is comforted by it and helps the family members or people doing the blessing if they think it will work or are comforted by it.

When people give a blessing to an unconscious person (something I see pretty frequently) it's for the benefit of the family and there is no question in my mind that a blessing can help family members calm down and improve their attitude and state of mind.

But another thought I have had is that if I were sick and in the hospital, I think a blessing would make me feel better -- not that I could ever believe deep down that anything supernatural would happen. But I think anybody would appreciate the thoughts of others and whatever nice things people expressed about hoping you would recover or that family would be comforted. Who wouldn't appreciate the sentiments usually expressed in a Priesthood blessing?

[The Rambam]

The Rambam, just a friendly ob, but you seem really upset or bothered about something re: the LDS Church. Want to just get it off your chest? Generally your posts are insightful with a tinge of personal panache. Lately they just seem bitter. Not Jazz fan "why did Karl miss those free throws against the Sonics in the WCF that would have sent them to the Finals" bitter but more like a Taylor Swift "why does everyone that dates me wind up dumping me" bitter. It seems more personal this time.

I'm just fine TD. Thanks for the concern.

Love to hear you opinion on the healing efficacy of priesthood blessings.

I think you could say that a blessing changes outcomes only by affecting the attitude and mood of those involved with a blessing. Something people say regarding blessings that seems true is that they work in accordance with the faith of the person receiving the blessing and those giving the blessing. The "placebo effect" (in the positive sense) of a Priesthood blessing helps the patient if he thinks it will work or is comforted by it and helps the family members or people doing the blessing if they think it will work or are comforted by it.

That is what the authors of the linked study thought would happen with prayer. The main scholar had previously posited that prayers worked because of the positive mental impact. He was surprised that the data showed that the opposite was true--that the anxiety was stronger than the peace and comfort. People who knew people were praying for them had more complications and more serious complications. Wow, right? Not what I would have thought either.

[taekwondave]

No, I'm going to retract my previous statement to some degree. I think this "study" is stupid. It doesn't take into account the varying levels of that certain je ne sais quoi that some people have over other people with regards to this... art/practice/whatever you want to call it.

Saying, "we took 1000 patients and 1000 strangers and had the strangers pray for them and the results were so scattered we can only conclude that prayer doesn't work" is like saying "we took 1000 patients and 1000 strangers and had the strangers perform heart surgery on the patients and so many of them died we have concluded that heart surgery does not work."

Well... yeah. Did these 1000 "surgeons" you picked up off the street go through medical school? Do they have any experience using this method for curing people? How was their track record?

Is this really comparing apples to apples?

Now, I admit I don't know anyone who has a marvelous track record in the art of placebo/faith healing. And perhaps there is nobody on earth living today who knows how to activate that mechanism consistently enough to be able to compare himself with even the most humble of surgeons fresh off their residency, but that doesn't prove anything about the power/potential/reality of faith healing itself, so much as it exposes a shortage of skilled practitioners of the art. I've seen people healed by this method. And not just from sniffles and tummy aches, but from structural deformities that would have required surgery otherwise, tumors, and other chronic illnesses (and I'm willing to bet there are a few people on this board who have seen greater things than that).

If you handed a scalpel to a doctor two hundred years ago before they had been trained in the art of surgery and told them to "cut out the bad part" they would have thought you were crazy; yet today we know great benefit is found in this procedure. This study simply proves the general population is either ignorant of the mechanism involved in faith healing or unskilled at tapping into it consistently. It doesn't prove that "prayer doesn't work," but rather, that most people's prayers don't work. Now THAT is something I can agree with.

[taekwondave]

I'm just fine TD. Thanks for the concern.

Love to hear you opinion on the healing efficacy of priesthood blessings.



That is what the authors of the linked study thought would happen with prayer. The main scholar had previously posited that prayers worked because of the positive mental impact. He was surprised that the data showed that the opposite was true--that the anxiety was stronger than the peace and comfort. People who knew people were praying for them had more complications and more serious complications. Wow, right? Not what I would have thought either.

Actually this doesn't surprise me at all. My prayers used to stress me out and I imagine there are many who still pray the way I used to. When you believe there is a guy in the sky who may or may not listen to your pleadings based on an equation you have been unable to crack, that's pretty stressful. I'm not surprised that people who have that sort of belief would also respond with that negatively charged emotion when they know others are praying for them too. I swear I know when my mother is praying for me. I have to call her up sometimes and ask her to stop; that the negativity she's sending out there of worry and fear is probably working against her, and possibly against me. She doesn't listen though.

[wally]

Why in the hell are scientists wasting time and resources studying prayer when I am only now hearing about a hoverboard hitting the market? And not even a real hoverboard, rather a "glider"-board that probably doesn't even function off of the earths own gravitational field like I was promised.

I blame you and your ilk rambam, for always redirecting conversation to religion. It is your fault that there are no real hoverboards. I hereby personally attack you.

[Moliere]

Is it offensive to the orthodox to suggest that the purpose of prayer, and likewise blessings, isn't to effect outcomes? It seems that it doesn't take long in a praying life before one figures this out, which makes it all the more sad that mature people still look at prayer as a sort of heavenly candy machine.

This is a great post and I agree with it 100%.

It's sad that we teach, and that teaching is constantly reaffirmed through lessons and shared experiences, that prayer is a heavenly candy machine (what a great term!).

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why in the hell are scientists wasting time and resources studying prayer when I am only now hearing about a hoverboard hitting the market? And not even a real hoverboard, rather a "glider"-board that probably doesn't even function off of the earths own gravitational field like I was promised.

I blame you and your ilk rambam, for always redirecting conversation to religion. It is your fault that there are no real hoverboards. I hereby personally attack you.

This is a great post and I agree with it 100%.