Prayer doesn't work. Do Mormon Priesthood Blessings?

[Indy Coug]

HealRate = x + Prayer_Indicator * y?

Yeah, that looks like a sound regression model.

[woot]

This is a great post and I agree with it 100%.

I would also agree. While I can't blame them (well, us), religion is definitely in the heads of scientists. It's hard to find a post about a new fossil or other biological discovery without seeing the comments full of "checkmate, creationists!" type stuff. I also had a friend recently get a lesson plan rejected from a journal that specializes in K-12 education because while it was good, it could potentially be mistaken for promoting intelligent design.

I get that religion is a continuing threat, but it bugs me how much attention it gets from scientists who should have better things to do.

[Coach McGuirk]

You people appear to not be praying right.

[Tone Loc]

Well, that proves it.

I love how one study put to rest the argument of whether or not prayer works. This beautiful scientific masterpiece is the final word. I just wish it would have been brought to my attention long ago. Because I have spent a lot of time praying and teaching others to do the same in the past five years.

Well better late than never. I am going to take note of that study and if Jesus happens to be real (which this obviously proves otherwise), I will have something to fall back on. Huh!? What now Jesus? He will be speechless.

[Goatnapper'96]

I would also agree. While I can't blame them (well, us), religion is definitely in the heads of scientists. It's hard to find a post about a new fossil or other biological discovery without seeing the comments full of "checkmate, creationists!" type stuff. I also had a friend recently get a lesson plan rejected from a journal that specializes in K-12 education because while it was good, it could potentially be mistaken for promoting intelligent design.

I get that religion is a continuing threat, but it bugs me how much attention it gets from scientists who should have better things to do.

I think hard core science attracts people who really, really, want to be right.

[Katy Lied]

I think the crux is whether strangers or connected people pray for you. The prayers of an entire nunnery in Massachusetts would not matter to me as much as a heartfelt prayer of a friend, or a priesthood prayer from someone authorized. The "stranger prayer" has even less effect on adherents of churches that proclaim they are the one true church, like mormons.

We all see, or don't see, God in the details. We all interpret miracles differently as holy, scientific, or random. All of the other studies of the effects of prayer that filter pious from non-pious subjects show that prayer helps.

I guess I am saying that it's not the quantity of prayers offered that can affect outcome, it's the quality of the belief in prayer by the subject of that prayer. Fling 200 prayers against a wall, and they will all fall to the ground. Let a loved one know you are praying/rooting/hoping/emotionally connected to them while they face a physical crisis, I bet the marginal recovery rate goes up.

[Goatnapper'96]

This is a great post and I agree with it 100%.

It's sad that we teach, and that teaching is constantly reaffirmed through lessons and shared experiences, that prayer is a heavenly candy machine (what a great term!).

It was trully one of the best posts. Heavenly candy machine is classic. It is my opinion that LDS theology teaches that the purpose of prayer is to learn to accept God's will.

[Goatnapper'96]

I think the crux is whether strangers or connected people pray for you. The prayers of an entire nunnery in Massachusetts would not matter to me as much as a heartfelt prayer of a friend, or a priesthood prayer from someone authorized. The "stranger prayer" has even less effect on adherents of churches that proclaim they are the one true church, like mormons.

We all see, or don't see, God in the details. We all interpret miracles differently as holy, scientific, or random. All of the other studies of the effects of prayer that filter pious from non-pious subjects show that prayer helps.

I guess I am saying that it's not the quantity of prayers offered that can affect outcome, it's the quality of the belief in prayer by the subject of that prayer. Fling 200 prayers against a wall, and they will all fall to the ground. Let a loved one know you are praying/rooting/hoping/emotionally connected to them while they face a physical crisis, I bet the marginal recovery rate goes up.

I think the act also binds people together towards the Christlike virtue of charity, which I believe is likely more relevent to God's purposes than miraculous healings.

[creekster]

I think the crux is whether strangers or connected people pray for you. The prayers of an entire nunnery in Massachusetts would not matter to me as much as a heartfelt prayer of a friend, or a priesthood prayer from someone authorized. The "stranger prayer" has even less effect on adherents of churches that proclaim they are the one true church, like mormons.

We all see, or don't see, God in the details. We all interpret miracles differently as holy, scientific, or random. All of the other studies of the effects of prayer that filter pious from non-pious subjects show that prayer helps.

I guess I am saying that it's not the quantity of prayers offered that can affect outcome, it's the quality of the belief in prayer by the subject of that prayer. Fling 200 prayers against a wall, and they will all fall to the ground. Let a loved one know you are praying/rooting/hoping/emotionally connected to them while they face a physical crisis, I bet the marginal recovery rate goes up.

IOW, it is the subject's attitude and not the prayer that causes the effect. Prayer by another is an inducement to improve one's attitude and only works when the fact of the prayer is ocmmunicated. So much for praying in secret, eh?

[creekster]

It was trully one of the best posts. Heavenly candy machine is classic. It is my opinion that LDS theology teaches that the purpose of prayer is to learn to accept God's will.

Or, as put forth in the Bible dictionary, to align our will with God's. That is what becoming one is all about. That is what prayer is all about.

[Goatnapper'96]

Or, as put forth in the Bible dictionary, to align our will with God's. That is what becoming one is all about. That is what prayer is all about.

Not that we can change the will of God. Best definition in that book.

[TripletDaddy]

Or, as put forth in the Bible dictionary, to align our will with God's. That is what becoming one is all about. That is what prayer is all about.

I don't disagree at all, but do you feel that we do an effective job communicating this to the general membership of the Church? Seems radical to suggest to the rank and file that prayer isn't really about the "ask and ye shall receive" stuff. The scriptures and the Church imply that some portion of prayer actually IS about getting stuff out of the machine when you pull the lever. There are also plenty of examples that support the notion you are espousing, as well, which is why I don't disagree with you.

On the subject of faith healings, if a person could only choose between a blessing by his or her home teachers or a visit to the top medical practitioner in that particular field, I wonder which one people would choose? I know which one I would choose.

[kccougar]

I don't disagree at all, but do you feel that we do an effective job communicating this to the general membership of the Church? Seems radical to suggest to the rank and file that prayer isn't really about the "ask and ye shall receive" stuff. (

I hear that taught all the time. Again I have to ask, what church is it you people are attending?

[Jacob]

Is it offensive to the orthodox to suggest that the purpose of prayer, and likewise blessings, isn't to effect outcomes? It seems that it doesn't take long in a praying life before one figures this out, which makes it all the more sad that mature people still look at prayer as a sort of heavenly candy machine.

It is not at all offensive to most "orthodox" believers in Christ for you to suggest that you personally don't think the purpose of prayer is to be heard or for God to answer. Or that you doubt the efficacy of prayer.

It is extraordinarily offensive for you to suggest what you do about their faith, belief, sincerity, and dearly held teachings of Jesus.

[Jacob]

I don't disagree at all, but do you feel that we do an effective job communicating this to the general membership of the Church? Seems radical to suggest to the rank and file that prayer isn't really about the "ask and ye shall receive" stuff. The scriptures and the Church imply that some portion of prayer actually IS about getting stuff out of the machine when you pull the lever. There are also plenty of examples that support the notion you are espousing, as well, which is why I don't disagree with you.

That is not radical at all. Jesus is radical. He taught "ask and ye shall receive." Your teaching is quite tame by comparison.