Newordermormon.org

[Non Sequitur]

I think they are more concerned with obedience than $. What I believe he was concerned about was changing you into the image he thinks is what mankind should be.

I notice that in the end cooler heads prevailed, but hey take away from it that you are the victim in the mormon church's ponzi scheme of life!

What bothered me is that if I had been a dorky 16 year-old priest and wanted to baptize someone, tithing would have never been an issue. On my mission it was common for Aaronic priesthood holders to baptize people. Tithing and temple recommends were never discussed. I've had lots of bishops that were great guys...this one just happened to be a dick, but it's always the dicks that you remember most.

[Goatnapper'96]

Are you drunk?

Not for more than 20+ years.

[Non Sequitur]

I bet if we landed Tom Cruise he would bring the church more revenue than the whole damn country of Ecuador.

Not so fast. I served in Ecuador, and recruited many to the fold. My down-line have always been big earners.

[Pheidippides]

While I sympathize quite a bit with your POV and those of athiestcougar, UtahDan, etc., I think a lot of "non-traditional" Mormons have problems because they have a chip on their shoulder.

Without necessarily stipulating to the names, I completely agree with this. In fact, the biggest thing I did over the last year was learn to let go of the chip. I'm not always successful but to the extent I am my life is better.

The church is like anything else: you find what you are looking for, and if you are seeking for fault and inconsistency you will find it. But so to will you find good people.

I will admit that, close as I once was to jumping out entirely, I cannot understand those who want no part in the church and yet let their lives and thoughts be defined by it.

[Surfah]

What bothered me is that if I had been a dorky 16 year-old priest and wanted to baptize someone, tithing would have never been an issue. On my mission it was common for Aaronic priesthood holders to baptize people. Tithing and temple recommends were never discussed. I've had lots of bishops that were great guys...this one just happened to be a dick, but it's always the dicks that you remember most.

When I was 16 I baptized a kid that lived in my neighborhood and went to school with. Prior to the baptism I had an interview with my bishop who basically conducted a temple recommend interview for a temporary recommen. Except he also asked if I masturbated.

[Green Monstah]

When I was 16 I baptized a kid that lived in my neighborhood and went to school with. Prior to the baptism I had an interview with my bishop who basically conducted a temple recommend interview for a temporary recommen. Except he also asked if I masturbated.

Not today, bishop; not today.

[Green Monstah]

Exactly the majority of the "projects" actually hurt the churchs bottom line due to the welfare system.. If they were going to pinpoint projects based on revenue stream why do we send our missionaries to poor countries? Wouldn't we be better off sending them all to the Hollywood hills? I bet if we landed Tom Cruise he would bring the church more revenue than the whole damn country of Ecuador.

Well, one of the refrains I have heard over the last ten years is that the Church is asking the missionaries to focus on finding people who are not impoverished in those countries.

Obviously there are other reasons you want people who aren't eeking out a living, but damn, that's fodder for the skeptic.

[Moliere]

Lol. I hope you're right, Indy.

I don't think that local leaders are out to increase tithing receipts. But, the fact that the higher-ups do speak about tithing and make it a requirement to temple attendance, and even go so far as to create a "settlement" meeting that local leaders don't know the purpose for makes me wonder a bit.

I just don't have enough faith.

Just from a point of reason doesn't it make sense that tithe paying members enjoy more benefits? Would you enroll your son in a local scout troop and when the Troop Treasurer comes to collect the dues you tell him to take a hike and then expect them to continue to involve your son in the troop just like the dues-paying participants?

I'll concede this is a very loose example as a full tithe paying member can pay as little as $5 or as much as $5 million, but to assume that you can show up and use resources without some thought of giving back is selfish.

[Surfah]

Well, one of the refrains I have heard over the last ten years is that the Church is asking the missionaries to focus on finding people who are not impoverished in those countries.

Obviously there are other reasons you want people who aren't eeking out a living, but damn, that's fodder for the skeptic.

That may come from a frustrated Bishop, but that is not church's directive at all. I have not heard that in any leadership instruction.

[cougjunkie]

Just from a point of reason doesn't it make sense that tithe paying members enjoy more benefits? Would you enroll your son in a local scout troop and when the Troop Treasurer comes to collect the dues you tell him to take a hike and then expect them to continue to involve your son in the troop just like the dues-paying participants?

I'll concede this is a very loose example as a full tithe paying member can pay as little as $5 or as much as $5 million, but to assume that you can show up and use resources without some thought of giving back is selfish.

I think this is a great example. If instead of tithing the churc decided to ask the members in areas to contribute to the buildings of new churches, temples, purchase of land, pay for the upkeep, etc. We would hear constant bitching and moaning about how they are asking to much.

I guarantee if one of Adams kids wanted to use the church for a wedding reception and they were required to throw down a $100 cleaning deposit he would throw a fit.

[Green Monstah]

That may come from a frustrated Bishop, but that is not church's directive at all. I have not heard that in any leadership instruction.

Interesting. I've heard it come from MPs, according to a half dozen missionaries who served in Latin America.

[Green Monstah]

Just from a point of reason doesn't it make sense that tithe paying members enjoy more benefits? Would you enroll your son in a local scout troop and when the Troop Treasurer comes to collect the dues you tell him to take a hike and then expect them to continue to involve your son in the troop just like the dues-paying participants?

I'll concede this is a very loose example as a full tithe paying member can pay as little as $5 or as much as $5 million, but to assume that you can show up and use resources without some thought of giving back is selfish.

If God were a respecter of persons, I may agree.

[DrumNFeather]

Absolutely untrue.

I don't have a temple recommend but I have a calling. I am the ward financial clerk.

Does that qualify as "significant"? I don't know and I certainly don't care. I'd be just as happy with no calling to be honest.

I have also not been put on a "project" list. At least as far as I can tell. No extra interviews with the bishop. No extra phone calls from the Elders Quorum president. No bishopric visits. No odd "service projects."

I've been treated the same recently as I was 2, 4 or 6 years ago.

The bishop knows my feelings and struggles. So does the 2nd counselor. I'm sure the stake presidency does at some level, too, because they were the ones that recently called me to be the ward financial clerk.

While I sympathize quite a bit with your POV and those of athiestcougar, UtahDan, etc., I think a lot of "non-traditional" Mormons have problems because they have a chip on their shoulder.

The fact of the matter with tithing is that you can nearly completely skirt the issue by paying (or not paying) directly to the Corporation of the Church and bypassing the ward level. You can then declare (or not) your tithe as you like.

My experience has been that if you are honest about your feelings without being an ass to other ward members and leaders and participate at the level you want, you will be accepted. I might not think everything taught is reality, but I've really tried to take up chances for true service to other ward members and neighbors and if I accept a calling, I try to do my best. Nobdody has said boo.

I laugh when folks "like us" talk about "the harm it caused me."

Grow up. The LDS church can't harm you if you don't allow it to harm you. Take some responsibility for your life. People and organizations to which you voluntarily belong can only "harm" you if YOU ALLOW them to harm you. Nobody holds a gun to your head to make you come to church, pay tithing or hold a calling. Nobody can make you there project if you are clear, polite and direct that you do not want to be a project.

I agree with this...some folks seem to take the persecution complex they so deeply criticize with them when they leave or head to the fringe.

[The_Tick]

What bothered me is that if I had been a dorky 16 year-old priest and wanted to baptize someone, tithing would have never been an issue. On my mission it was common for Aaronic priesthood holders to baptize people. Tithing and temple recommends were never discussed. I've had lots of bishops that were great guys...this one just happened to be a dick, but it's always the dicks that you remember most.

I hear what you are saying...but a 16 year old Priest hasn't made covenants in the Temple either.

Same reason that a 35 year old person who hasn't been through the temple yet is given much more leniency.

[Non Sequitur]

I guarantee if one of Adams kids wanted to use the church for a wedding reception and they were required to throw down a $100 cleaning deposit he would throw a fit.

I don't know RamBam personally, but somehow I don't see him using the cultural hall for a wedding reception. If I'm wrong, then all hope is lost.