Newordermormon.org

[Indy Coug]

So he talked about converting professionals during that 40 days? Link?

No. His failure to choose professional disciples required post-mortal training despite the fact that they had 3 years to figure it out. C'mon, read the dialogue in the Gospels. They were clueless.

[Omaha 680]

I would just like add my voice to those who have said that tithing doesn't enter into the discussion when "picking projects" and certainly doesn't control who is helped by church resources. Never in any of our councils or presidency meetings have we discussed non-payment of tithing as a reason to need to help someone. And generally speaking, no one but the Branch President (and clerk?) even knows the tithe paying status of our members. I guess I know generally who pays to the branch because I often help with preparing the donations deposit. But I never assume those who I don't see a donation from aren't paying. I honestly don't think about it much at all.

I WOULD LOVE THIS! I hope they bring it back. We can't even cook in the churches anymore because of physical facilities masterplanning everything and limiting 'risk' thinking like a corporation. I would absolutely love to know where my tithing goes.

I have heard in more than one place that the "no preparing food in the kitchens" edict is a reaction to county health departments wanting church kitchens to meet all health codes that are required of restaurants. To avoid having to meet those codes and avoid fines if food is prepared in kitchens that don't meet them, they just said don't prepare it at the church. Does anyone know if this is accurate?

[Jarid in Cedar]

No. His failure to choose professional disciples required post-mortal training despite the fact that they had 3 years to figure it out. C'mon, read the dialogue in the Gospels. They were clueless.

Ignorant hyperbole at its worst.

[Green Monstah]

No. His failure to choose professional disciples required post-mortal training despite the fact that they had 3 years to figure it out. C'mon, read the dialogue in the Gospels. They were clueless.

It doesnt surprise me that you're a fan of Paul.

[woot]

No. His failure to choose professional disciples required post-mortal training despite the fact that they had 3 years to figure it out. C'mon, read the dialogue in the Gospels. They were clueless.

Good thing they got all this dialogue on film. If it were only hearsay written down decades after it occurred by people who weren't there, your comment would seem really silly.

[Surfah]

I don't subscribe to those ridiculous stories about people paying tithing and then getting money from some random source, but the benefits of the ward family are huge and probably underestimated. And it seems like any halfway normal person who attends Church most of the time would pay tithing, regardless of doubts.

I didn't either until it happened to me.

[UtahDan]

Sure, I agree. Obviously a lot of Church members are going to give a lot more in tithing than they are getting back no matter how you count it and tithing is mostly a matter of faith.

I'm just saying that while I understand people leaving the Church because they don't want to pay tithing, I don't get somebody who would participate fully in Church but then be a freeloader or pay far short of 10% of net income. And I think a lot of people underestimate the material and psychological benefits of Church membership.

Back when I owned crappy cars I got hooked up with a couple of awesome mechanic who would do things for me really inexpensively through Church contacts. When our house got damaged in a hurricane Church members helped us find people to fix everything really well and for less than the insurance reimbursed us. There is the ubiquitous Elders Quorum moving service (which I admit I only used twice when we had literally no money). When I came out to SLC the very first patient who scheduled to see me in clinic was a ward member and I have taken care of all kinds of people I met through Church.

I don't subscribe to those ridiculous stories about people paying tithing and then getting money from some random source, but the benefits of the ward family are huge and probably underestimated. And it seems like any halfway normal person who attends Church most of the time would pay tithing, regardless of doubts.

Well I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole of trying to pull this apart. I will just say that I don't see a clean line from the money paid to the benefits received in all of those cases because most of them are not provided by the corporate church. I don't know, you may be right but somehow it seems crass to me. But I do agree with the idea that if you are going to use the facilities etc. it is fair to help pay for them, though of course their cost may be quite a bit less than 10%. On the other hand, I do think there is legitimate ground to stand on where a person becomes morally conflicted about helping to pay for some of what the church does and might not want to be part of that, while still wanting to be part of the worship community. It is a complex issue for a lot of people who are not all in or all out.

[Portland Ute]

You can turn only so many 3rd grade dropouts into prophets...

So, how do you explain the push for more educated converts?

I thought the idea that it was for higher tithing revenues was highly cynical.

Apparently, you think the idea that it was a way to find more qualified leaders is equally distasteful.

Pray tell, why the push for more educated converts?

[UtahDan]

I didn't either until it happened to me.

Is there anyone who has had more interesting and unusual experiences than Surfah? You are Katy Lied with a Y chromosome.

[Portland Ute]

Is there anyone who has had more interesting and unusual experiences than Surfah? You are Katy Lied with a Y chromosome.

Uh... Sooner Coug?

[UtahDan]

So, how do you explain the push for more educated converts?

I thought the idea that it was for higher tithing revenues was highly cynical.

Apparently, you think the idea that it was a way to find more qualified leaders is equally distasteful.

Pray tell, why the push for more educated converts?

My cousin went to Zimbabwe and Zambia and they only proselyted business owners, company managers and government officials. The idea was that you needed people who already know how to be leaders/bureaucrats/administrators in order for the church organization to succeed.

[Indy Coug]

Is there anyone who has had more interesting and unusual nonfictional experiences than Surfah? You are Katy Lied with a Y chromosome.

FIFY

[cougjunkie]

Well I don't want to go too far down the rabbit hole of trying to pull this apart. I will just say that I don't see a clean line from the money paid to the benefits received in all of those cases because most of them are not provided by the corporate church. I don't know, you may be right but somehow it seems crass to me. But I do agree with the idea that if you are going to use the facilities etc. it is fair to help pay for them, though of course their cost may be quite a bit less than 10%. On the other hand, I do think there is legitimate ground to stand on where a person becomes morally conflicted about helping to pay for some of what the church does and might not want to be part of that, while still wanting to be part of the worship community. It is a complex issue for a lot of people who are not all in or all out.

The cost of a building is about 2.5 million.

100 families per ward pay tithing, 3 wards per building, average income in the US is 40,000. $4000x300= 1,200,000 and that is being pretty liberal with income and tithe payers as well as not factoring facility upkeep, welfare to ward members funding activities, etc. Seems the members are getting a bargain.

[Surfah]

Is there anyone who has had more interesting and unusual experiences than Surfah? You are Katy Lied with a Y chromosome.

I'd share it, but you know, pearls before swine.

[woot]

The cost of a building is about 2.5 million.

100 families per ward pay tithing, 3 wards per building, average income in the US is 40,000. $4000x300= 1,200,000 and that is being pretty liberal with income and tithe payers as well as not factoring facility upkeep, welfare to ward members funding activities, etc. Seems the members are getting a bargain.

Unless you're trying to argue that the cost of a building is 2.5 million per year, I think the church is getting a bargain.