Tithing

[clackamascoug]

I always like to be one of the last people to go through. That way the Bishop is all talked out, just wants to get it over and the small talk is kept minimal. As a financial clerk for a total of about 8 years, I have noticed that about 90% of the people show up in non church clothes, even on a Sunday night.

[Uncle Ted]

I'm not telling anyone they shouldn't pay tithing! I'm merely pointing out that tithing settlement . . . um . . . gets results. If people would just pay their tithing in the normal course, instead of bringing it to tithing settlement, I suspect tithing settlement wouldn't be nearly as emphasized. And for those people who don't pay tithing all year long, and then bring an entire year's tithing to tithing settlement, well, let's just say they're not exactly helping.

Looking back in history the early church took it a step further in getting results... Well, with the exception of the Q12 and some others of course:

[...]
In August 1844 the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles issued an epistle which required all Mormons to immediately pay 'a tenth of all their property and money . . . and then let them continue to pay in a tenth of their income from that time forth.' There was no exemption for Mormons who had already paid one-tenth of their property upon conversion.11 In January 1845 a Quorum of Twelve's epistle reemphasized 'the duty of all saints to tithe themselves one-tenth of all they possess when they enter into the new and everlasting covenant: and then one-tenth of their interest, or income, yearly afterwards.'12 However, two weeks later the Twelve voted to exempt themselves, the two general bishops Newel K. Whitney and George Miller, and the Nauvoo Temple Committee from any obligation to pay tithing. This was due to their services to the church.13


Apostle John E. Page's enforcement of the full-tithing requirement for the rank-and-file led to his disaffection from his own quorum. Exempted from tithing himself, Page felt guilty about collecting tithing from others such as one Mormon who gave $4 which was 'the tenth of all' the man and his impoverished family possessed. Upon abandoning the Quorum of the Twelve in 1846, Page complained that he 'believes that many paid tithing & in consequence of [this, were in] want of money enough to procure misc. necessaries of life.'14


Five years later Brigham Young provided a penalty for those Mormons who did not comply with the published definitions of the law of tithing. In September 1851 a special conference at Salt Lake City voted to accept excommunication as punishment for non-payment of tithing and non-observance of the Word of Wisdom's prohibition of tobacco and spirituous alcohol. Neither requirement was enforced consistently or often.15 Nevertheless, in 1854 the Deseret News printed a notice by the bishop of the Salt Lake City Nineteenth Ward that Enoch M. King was disfellowshipped 'for repeatedly refusing to conform to the rules of said Church, in the law of Tithing.' In October 1858 a bishop's meeting asked Presiding Bishop Edward Hunter: 'Are all to be cut off who do not pay their Tithing? Answer, deal according to circumstances, and the wisdom God gives.'16
[...]

http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/2010/12/lds-history-summary.html

[ERCougar]

Looking back in history the early church took it a step further in getting results... Well, with the exception of the Q12 and some others of course:

http://lds-church-history.blogspot.c...y-summary.html

Wow. I would not have taken that well.

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[Moliere]

A while back when I was finance clerk, there were a number of active families that didn't sign up for tithing settlement. As the last scheduled day for TS arrived, the bishop went through the ward list and asked me to call certain families that he felt would want to declare their tithing status. I pushed back by telling him those families were in church every week, paid tithing, and obviously knew the protocol and if they wanted to declare their status they would. He again asked and I relented and started calling the 7-8 families. The first conversation was uncomfortable as I talked to the mother and had the confirmation that the family really didn't care to come in, but since they were somewhat friends with me they didn't come out and say it right away. We basically came to a mutual understanding they didn't want to come in adn I really couldn't care less if they came in. After one more similar call I gave up and just told the bishop either they weren't able to come in or I couldn't get a hold of them.

Yes I lied to the bishop, but I classify it as lying for the Lord.

[Dwight Schr-ute]

...in 1854 the Deseret News printed a notice by the bishop of the Salt Lake City Nineteenth Ward that Enoch M. King was disfellowshipped 'for repeatedly refusing to conform to the rules of said Church, in the law of Tithing.'

[Moliere]

I found this blog entry quite interesting: http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...ing-in-a-word/

In a nutshell the current definition of tithing per the handbook is based off of D&C 119:4 as shown below:



The author goes back to the current dictionary of the day (or one close to it) from 1828 and notes that the definition of "interest" is as follows:

“6. Any surplus advantage”
(“American Dictionary of the English Language” entry on “Interest”, Noah Webster, 1828)

This has probably been kicked around a lot on this board and I know the definition of tithing has changed several times during the history of the church (as documented in the Dialogue article that gets posted frequently around here). I just find it interesting that the current verse that is used to imply we should pay 10% of our salary as tithing is actually prooftexted and it means quite the opposite....in that we should only pay tithing on our surplus.

[Bo Diddley]

I found this blog entry quite interesting: http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...ing-in-a-word/

In a nutshell the current definition of tithing per the handbook is based off of D&C 119:4 as shown below:



The author goes back to the current dictionary of the day (or one close to it) from 1828 and notes that the definition of "interest" is as follows:



This has probably been kicked around a lot on this board and I know the definition of tithing has changed several times during the history of the church (as documented in the Dialogue article that gets posted frequently around here). I just find it interesting that the current verse that is used to imply we should pay 10% of our salary as tithing is actually prooftexted and it means quite the opposite....in that we should only pay tithing on our surplus.

I read the blog, but it's garbage. The more I read, the more I realized it. People are very good at rationalizing their actions. It really is between you and the Lord. I've never had a Bishop delve deeper into my tithing other than to ask me if I was a full tithe payer or not. Some of the blessings of paying tithing come from working out with Him how much you're going to pay.

[CardiacCoug]

Tithing dollars at work:

http://m.ksl.com/index/story/sid/28726825

[Jacob]

I found this blog entry quite interesting: http://thoughtsonthingsandstuff.com/...ing-in-a-word/

In a nutshell the current definition of tithing per the handbook is based off of D&C 119:4 as shown below:



The author goes back to the current dictionary of the day (or one close to it) from 1828 and notes that the definition of "interest" is as follows:



This has probably been kicked around a lot on this board and I know the definition of tithing has changed several times during the history of the church (as documented in the Dialogue article that gets posted frequently around here). I just find it interesting that the current verse that is used to imply we should pay 10% of our salary as tithing is actually prooftexted and it means quite the opposite....in that we should only pay tithing on our surplus.

That is actually definition #5 in Websters 1828 version for Interest as a noun. Some of the others that would seem relevant are as follows:

2. Share; portion; part; participation in value.
3. Regard to private profit.

It would be odd to merely take definition #5 and make it sound like what you would like to to mean. I'm not saying the other definitions settle the matter.

[ewth8tr]

A convicted felon who hasn't been making his restitution payments told a judge that he wouldn't stop paying tithing in order to pay restitution to the people he swindled. Apparently his bishop is paying his rent and a condition is that he pay tithing still. I wonder if his bishop realizes that in doing so, the guy can't pay back these people?

http://www.standard.net/Courts/2014/11/19/Man-says-he-ll-pay-his-tithing-before-restitution.html

[Joe Public]

A convicted felon who hasn't been making his restitution payments told a judge that he wouldn't stop paying tithing in order to pay restitution to the people he swindled. Apparently his bishop is paying his rent and a condition is that he otay tithing still. I wonder if his bishop realizes that in doing so, the guy can't pay back these people?

http://www.standard.net/Courts/2014/...stitution.html

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[Uncle Ted]

A convicted felon who hasn't been making his restitution payments told a judge that he wouldn't stop paying tithing in order to pay restitution to the people he swindled. Apparently his bishop is paying his rent and a condition is that he otay tithing still. I wonder if his bishop realizes that in doing so, the guy can't pay back these people?

http://www.standard.net/Courts/2014/...stitution.html

Thomson was also ordered to pay $278,500 including interest in restitution to eight people. The restitution was ordered to be paid in monthly installments of $500, according to the court website.


The probation and jail sentences were in lieu of three sentences of 1 to 15 years at the Utah State Prison.

Maybe he should just take up residency at the Utah State Prison then he wouldn't need have his bishop pay his rent and, therefore, be in good standing with the church.

[wuapinmon]

My wife asked me a question last night about tithing, and I didn't know the answer. She asked, "If you don't pay your tithing, how much back tithing, or how long do you have to pay tithing before you can get your temple recommend back." I told her, "I don't know, but it's probably up to the bishop, so there likely isn't a general rule."

Am I wrong?

[LiveCoug]

Just paid tithing on lds.org for the first time. Very easy.

[Eddie]

My wife asked me a question last night about tithing, and I didn't know the answer. She asked, "If you don't pay your tithing, how much back tithing, or how long do you have to pay tithing before you can get your temple recommend back." I told her, "I don't know, but it's probably up to the bishop, so there likely isn't a general rule."

Am I wrong?

I think you're right.

I've noticed with our Bishop - who is a pretty hardcore TBM - that he is also pretty forgiving and, for lack of a better term, merciful.

If the family is a couple of months behind, he might encourage them to catch up. If he knows they have financial trouble, he might tell them to just start now. And if it has been an extended period of time, he usually just tells them to start now.

Which does bring up an interesting point. If you need some extra money, is there a dis-incentive to not paying tithing for 6-8 months and then just starting again when your bills are paid up? I mean, if there is no obligation to make up past tithes, is that a little like planning to go sin on Saturday knowing you can repent and take the sacrament on Sunday?