Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[tooblue]

Wouldn't it be awful to feel like you had to confess something private to your bishop, who was tooblue. I udnerstand he has been in the bishopric. I bet there are some bishops like him.

Wouldn't it be awful to be out of bounds and violate trusts even if it is merely a message board.

[KillerDog]

Also, I tend to agree with DDD in this thread. Under the Terms of Agreement in an LDS temple marriage, there really doesn't seem to be any wiggle room. The spouse MUST be told, if the cheater has any integrity.

An exception would be if one or both members of the relationship made their feelings clear that they would not want to be told (which would seem like an unusual request from anyone who literally believes what the church teaches about eternal marriage).

Where I tend to side with SU is in recognizing that the Terms of Agreement, as authored by the church, are not very good. I believe that TOA should be negotiated by couples (not their church) and that the TOA should be reevaluated from time to time to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

But DDD is completely right, that under the church's TOA, one MUST tell the spouse.

Where can you find a copy of the TOA for a temple marriage? They forgot to give my wife and I the copies we signed but I expect they haven't changed. There are some elements to that contract I would like specific performance on.

[TripletDaddy]

Also, I tend to agree with DDD in this thread. Under the Terms of Agreement in an LDS temple marriage, there really doesn't seem to be any wiggle room. The spouse MUST be told, if the cheater has any integrity.

An exception would be if one or both members of the relationship made their feelings clear that they would not want to be told (which would seem like an unusual request from anyone who literally believes what the church teaches about eternal marriage).

Where I tend to side with SU is in recognizing that the Terms of Agreement, as authored by the church, are not very good. I believe that TOA should be negotiated by couples (not their church) and that the TOA should be reevaluated from time to time to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

But DDD is completely right, that under the church's TOA, one MUST tell the spouse.

Babes already went this route. My position stands regardless of whether you are LDS, atheist, or a Scientologist (gasp!). You should tell your wife if you want to have any integrity.

[TripletDaddy]

Translation: No one should get to have an affair and not suffer pain and humiliation.

Not a good translation. in fact, completely off-point. "get" to have an affair? Now you see it as a privilege?

To your point, I think a more accurate statement is that it is unlikely that anyone that has an affair will avoid pain and humiliation to some degree.

[tooblue]

The Bishop is looking out for the interests of the church first, before the interests of the couple. Usually the church's interests and the couple's interests will not be mutually exclusive, but if they are, the Bishop has an obligation to represent the church's interests. Is this really controversial?

It's not controversial because you are wrong. The Bishops express responsibility is to look after the body of the saints which make up the church. He is explicitly answerable to God for every individuals well being.

[RobinFinderson]

No it doesn't.

That definition is a one way street.

Try again.

What is good communication?

[KillerDog]

He said that after the woman came to his office to chat about it.

I'm sorry, I thought the brother in this story went to the Bishop to chat. Did I misunderstand the facts? I admit I read the facts quickly.

One of the elements regarding repentance in the LDS Church that concerns me is the lack of grounding the confession has in the actions of the savior. I think we often take the confession to the extreme. I believe many members confess sins to a priesthood leader when they don't need to. I assume they do this because it is easier for them to confess to a person they can see rather than confess to the proper authority. I think many leaders take that confession thing and run with it, ordering confessions to others in a very foolish manner. I never noticed the savior requiring a confession by sinners prior to the granting of forgiveness.

[RobinFinderson]

Also, I tend to agree with DDD in this thread. Under the Terms of Agreement in an LDS temple marriage, there really doesn't seem to be any wiggle room. The spouse MUST be told, if the cheater has any integrity.

An exception would be if one or both members of the relationship made their feelings clear that they would not want to be told (which would seem like an unusual request from anyone who literally believes what the church teaches about eternal marriage).

Where I tend to side with SU is in recognizing that the Terms of Agreement, as authored by the church, are not very good. I believe that TOA should be negotiated by couples (not their church) and that the TOA should be reevaluated from time to time to make sure that everyone is on the same page.

But DDD is completely right, that under the church's TOA, one MUST tell the spouse.

[CardiacCoug]

By your definition I'd argue that most Bishops are good. I am turning into a broken record here, but I don't think we give Bishops enough credit that their counsel in most instances are divinely inspired and for our benefit.

Now I agree with you on this.

My last 3 or 4 Bishops have been good, reasonable men -- I would guess a lot like Lebowski's dad when dealing with these situations.

But the fact that most Bishops would judge wisely and not choose to inflict additional vindictive punishment in this type of situation doesn't mean every person in this situation should abrogate his decisions (whether or not to inform his wife, for example) in this matter to his current Bishop, in my opinion.

[SeattleUte]

This is silly. There are two options to this hypo...tell your wife, don't tell your wife. The "tell your wife" option is no more a one-size fits all than the "don't tell your wife."

There are likely lots of stories of men that admitted their affairs to the wife and the wife was able to forgive and move forward. People can recover from this tragedy. So to encourage someone to continue lying about it is no more universally applicable than to encourage someone to admit it.

In some cases, telling the wife will prove to basically destroy the relationship. I never denied this. But that is the reality when you commit adultery. My basic premise is fairly sound. Honesty and natural consequences, albeit unpleasant ones. The other premise is "cover up one lie with another." Again, that approach is foreign to me.

Your second point is equally as silly. A strawman. I have never dealt with adultery in my marriage. To whit, we have lots of participants in this thread. To be consistent, unless the other posters, including you, have dealt with adultery within their marriage, then their takes are equally troublesome to you?

The interesting thing about that is that you call me out for a one-size fits all approach, then criticize my opinion because it differs from yours. I guess your opinion on this matter is the true universal approach?

Translation: No one should get to have an affair and not suffer pain and humiliation.

[KillerDog]

By your definition I'd argue that most Bishops are good. I am turning into a broken record here, but I don't think we give Bishops enough credit that their counsel in most instances are divinely inspired and for our benefit. And again, this is a moot point if you don't believe that Bishops serve this role or have this stewardship over us.

I believe most bishops are good people, but I think bishops cover a spectrum. I've had very justice centered bishops and very mercy centered bishops. Regardless of the effects of inspiration, I find that men change little when they become a bishop. They still tend to be what they are and sometimes they allow the spirit to temper their positions. I've found this to be the case for all church authorities.

One bishop may require a confession to a spouse because he believes it is what the scriptures require. He will ignore his personal thoughts and maybe even spiritual inspiration, because he is duty driven. This sort of thing should be avoided and, I believe, is the root that SU wants to cut out of religion.

[TripletDaddy]

It isn't a contradiction. Good communication means making your needs, feelings, and expectations known.

No it doesn't.

That definition is a one way street.

Try again.

[TripletDaddy]

I recall the savior requiring sinners to go and sin no more.

He said that after the woman came to his office to chat about it.

[RobinFinderson]

Do you willfully misread and or misrepresent, or do you or did you ever really know what the role of a Bishop in the church is?

A2.What is the church?

The Bishop is looking out for the interests of the church first, before the interests of the couple. Usually the church's interests and the couple's interests will not be mutually exclusive, but if they are, the Bishop has an obligation to represent the church's interests. Is this really controversial?

[Surfah]

Excellent point. The net out of all this is that a blanket requirement to confess is not the best way to go. I've noticed that this type of interaction is done at the Bishop level. A good Bishop should find out about the parties involved and try to determine what the best way to salvage the marriage is. If he has not done that but has instead relied on what would work best in his own marriage, bad results can happen.

By your definition I'd argue that most Bishops are good. I am turning into a broken record here, but I don't think we give Bishops enough credit that their counsel in most instances are divinely inspired and for our benefit. And again, this is a moot point if you don't believe that Bishops serve this role or have this stewardship over us.