Repentance and confession - What would you do?

[tooblue]

Why is it that you always come back and get yourself all in a lather for the sex threads?

I luuuv sex.

[Babs]

I agree. And unless I miss the mark entirely, what you are saying is basically a more concise take on what Rocky was initially saying. Retaining the secret at this stage is really about damage control, not love and respect for the wife and kids.

No. The damage control is the wife and kids. How much pain do you really wish to inflict on the blameless?

[tooblue]

One of the main reasons the church 'requires' confession of serious sins is so the church can avoid making embarrassing callings, like calling a known adulterer to be bishop.

Along the same lines, the church also 'requires' confession so that it can excommunicate/distance itself from egregious sinners (possibly criminals).

For example, lets say a Bishop is helping a man to deal with a problem with pornography. During the course of a discussion, the man confesses that on a recent trip to Tijuana, he was sold a DVR full of pornographic images. Expecting 'normal' pornography, the confessor is shocked to discover that he DVR contains child pornography.

What is the bishop to do in this situation? If he is looking out for the church's interests, he needs to report this to the police. If he is looking out for the individual's interests, he might tell the person to destroy the DVR, and continue working with him on his pornography addiction.

Tooblue, how would you feel if the bishop chose the second choice, and it later came to light that the man had not thrown away the DVR, but made copies, and that his children discovered the copies, and the wife found out that the man had confessed this to the bishop, and chose to sue the church for protecting her criminal husband?

Generally speaking, the church's interests and the individual/couple's interests are not going to be mutually exclusive, but there may be times when they are, and when that happens a Bishop will rightfully protect the church's interests first.

The body of the church and the church are one and the same. In regards to your child porn hypothetical the Bishop is beholden to the law of the land -- the state -- first, and the individual second FYI. By law he must report it.

[RockyBalboa]

Another theme I'm getting out this thread: You should be allowed to control the consequences of your actions, and if that control is taken away, then it's not fair and vindictive.

I've also learned that having to live with the withholding of dark secrets, actions and choices is a sufficient price paid.

I've learned a lot today.

[TripletDaddy]

Integrity is already destroyed. This is more a matter of damage control, and the decision to divulge the infidelity has to be made on a case-by-case basis, having weighed the costs and benefits of a confession.

I agree. And unless I miss the mark entirely, what you are saying is basically a more concise take on what Rocky was initially saying. Retaining the secret at this stage is really about damage control, not love and respect for the wife and kids.

[RobinFinderson]

It's not controversial because you are wrong. The Bishops express responsibility is to look after the body of the saints which make up the church. He is explicitly answerable to God for every individuals well being.

One of the main reasons the church 'requires' confession of serious sins is so the church can avoid making embarrassing callings, like calling a known adulterer to be bishop.

Along the same lines, the church also 'requires' confession so that it can excommunicate/distance itself from egregious sinners (possibly criminals).

For example, lets say a Bishop is helping a man to deal with a problem with pornography. During the course of a discussion, the man confesses that on a recent trip to Tijuana, he was sold a DVR full of pornographic images. Expecting 'normal' pornography, the confessor is shocked to discover that he DVR contains child pornography.

What is the bishop to do in this situation? If he is looking out for the church's interests, he needs to report this to the police. If he is looking out for the individual's interests, he might tell the person to destroy the DVR, and continue working with him on his pornography addiction.

Tooblue, how would you feel if the bishop chose the second choice, and it later came to light that the man had not thrown away the DVR, but made copies, and that his children discovered the copies, and the wife found out that the man had confessed this to the bishop, and chose to sue the church for protecting her criminal husband?

Generally speaking, the church's interests and the individual/couple's interests are not going to be mutually exclusive, but there may be times when they are, and when that happens a Bishop will rightfully protect the church's interests first.

[SeattleUte]

Wouldn't it be awful to be out of bounds and violate trusts even if is merely a message board.

Why is it that you always come back and get yourself all in a lather for the sex threads?

[SeattleUte]

Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are simply pointing out that some marriages are not going to work out because one partner harbors resentment, is incapable of forgiveness or because some trust is not repairable. This is likely one of the reasons the man cheated to begin with. Unfulfilled needs, poor communication, etc. Why "protect" a potentially unfulfilling relationship through lies and deceit?

Now you are making your most pragmatic argument, with which I cannot argue. Unhappy marriages should just be brought to a swift end in many instances, and perferably before it's too hard on children or it gets too expensive.

But now we are afield of cowboy's hypothetical unless tooblue is correctly reading the subtext.

[Babs]

Babes already went this route. My position stands regardless of whether you are LDS, atheist, or a Scientologist (gasp!). You should tell your wife if you want to have any integrity.

Integrity is already destroyed. This is more a matter of damage control, and the decision to divulge the infidelity has to be made on a case-by-case basis, having weighed the costs and benefits of a confession.

[CardiacCoug]

And you're entitled to that opinion. But that opinion is not in harmony with what the Church and Christ (so long as you believe the scriptures and revelation) have set forth.

Yep. It's my opinion, not the Church's official position. Good observation.

[TripletDaddy]

Here's a hard part about telling the spouse that some of you taking a hard and fast approach are not considering. The spouse may want to see sackloth and ashes, weeping, true regret and tormented sorrow. Do people really ever feel that one dimensionally about a fantastic sexual experience? What if there was some resentment built up against the spuse beforehand? Unless you can act like Meryl Streep it may be a hard act to pull off. And how honest is that? I've heard of situations where the spouse keeps saying, "You don't seem really sorry." It really does tear a certain psyche that is fairly common to shreds.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but you are simply pointing out that some marriages are not going to work out because one partner harbors resentment, is incapable of forgiveness or because some trust is not repairable. This is likely one of the reasons the man cheated to begin with. Unfulfilled needs, poor communication, etc. Why "protect" a potentially unfulfilling relationship through lies and deceit?

[TripletDaddy]

Where can you find a copy of the TOA for a temple marriage? They forgot to give my wife and I the copies we signed but I expect they haven't changed. There are some elements to that contract I would like specific performance on.

lol.

my wife felt cheated by my peppercorn of consideration that I brought to the table.

[TripletDaddy]

What is good communication?

I don't have that answer. It seems that upon a minute's reflection, you now realize that you may not have it, either.

I am pretty confident that good communication does not include lying, cheating, and deceit. The term also implies a two-way exchange, at least as it pertains to marriage.

[Surfah]

But the fact that most Bishops would judge wisely and not choose to inflict additional vindictive punishment in this type of situation doesn't mean every person in this situation should abrogate his decisions (whether or not to inform his wife, for example) in this matter to his current Bishop, in my opinion.

And you're entitled to that opinion. But that opinion is not in harmony with what the Church and Christ (so long as you believe the scriptures and revelation) have set forth.

[SeattleUte]

Here's a hard part about telling the spouse that some of you taking a hard and fast approach are not considering. The spouse may want to see sackloth and ashes, weeping, true regret and tormented sorrow. Do people really ever feel that one dimensionally about a fantastic sexual experience? What if there was some resentment built up against the spuse beforehand? Unless you can act like Meryl Streep it may be a hard act to pull off. And how honest is that? I've heard of situations where the spouse keeps saying, "You don't seem really sorry." It really does tear a certain psyche that is fairly common to shreds.