Post tithing settlement thoughts...

[myboynoah]

No kidding. What's the downside?

I think I better understand how resistance to change in the church on important matters happens, if no-brainer stuff like this gets pushback. Yikes.

I've wished MRD good luck in his quest. I've only questioned how universally online payment will be used, even in the U.S. and Canada and noted that use outside of the U.S. and Canada will bring complications that the current system doesn't. I think he agrees with this. If he doesn't, then I guess we disagree. I can live with that. I don't understand all the drama.

[FMCoug]

An amusing thread. FYI online payment was in the works as part of a huge new financial systems project as of the time I left church IT. Based on how stuff gets done there, the prior prediction of a decade or so is probably about right.

[Sullyute]

I don't want to take this thread off its current course, but there was an article in the Ensign about tithing this month. The title is: Tithing: A key to peace in a troubled world. It quotes Elder Oaks as saying:

Those who place their faith in the Lord’s promises say, ‘I can’t afford not to pay tithing.

Then proceeds to share several stories of family who were blessed monetarily because they paid tithing.

So beyond, not being burned at the second coming, are there specific non-financial promises made for paying tithing? (I guess there was the promise of rain to the saints in St. George by Pres. Snow) It just seems like we hear about the monetary blessings of paying tithing, but not much else. Is there anything else?

[Paperback Writer]

I don't want to take this thread off its current course, but there was an article in the Ensign about tithing this month. The title is: Tithing: A key to peace in a troubled world. It quotes Elder Oaks as saying:



Then proceeds to share several stories of family who were blessed monetarily because they paid tithing.

So beyond, not being burned at the second coming, are there specific non-financial promises made for paying tithing? (I guess there was the promise of rain to the saints in St. George by Pres. Snow) It just seems like we hear about the monetary blessings of paying tithing, but not much else. Is there anything else?

I think blessings are very personal and not the same for everyone. Kind of like spiritual gifts. Some blessings are mentioned in scripture but are they necessarily universal? I don't know the answer.

I do know of patriarchal blessings that promise certain blessing from obeying certain commandments - including tithing. Would not be surprised to learn that promised blessings from obeying a certain commandments are different between partriachal blessings (if they are stated at all).

[beefytee]

Is there anything else?

Forgive the captain obvious answer, but you can't go to the temple if you don't pay tithing. So technically all the blessings/endowments promised there are a result of paying tithing.

[Sullyute]

Forgive the captain obvious answer, but you can't go to the temple if you don't pay tithing. So technically all the blessings/endowments promised there are a result of paying tithing.

You have a very good point. Tithing is a stepping stone to temple blessings. Also since the law of sacrifice and consecration are part of the temple ceremony, then it could be argued that by paying tithing you are keeping your temple covenants and thus garnishing temple blessings. However, that wouldn't apply to those that pay tithing but haven't gone through the temple. Thanks for the obvious answer I had overlooked.

[Uncle Ted]

I want the last word. I maintain my position that whoever is in charge of the decision to keep the donations the way they are should be ashamed. It pisses me off that other people in the ward can see how much I make a year. It also pisses me off that I can pay my cable bill in 2 seconds and get a year to date print out of what I paid at any time I want but for me to get my end of year statement from the church I have to wait until the WFC prints off all the statments then hands it too me at church. Especially when you consider the othe orgs I give too make it easy for me to donate.

I have been paying my tithing directly to the church office since the 90's. Here is what I personally do... The church has accounts with about every major brokerage including the small one that I use. I have my broker figure out which of the stocks in my portfolio have done the best in the way of long term capital gains and draft a short letter to my broker stating to "transfer X number of share ABC stock to the church's account as tithing". About two weeks later I will get a statement from the church office stating that they have received X number of shares of ABC stock" as a gift in kind applied to tithing. Since I don't sell the stock I don't have to report and pay the capital gains on taxes. Given capital gains taxes are going up I am now inclined to also pay fast offerings this same way as well. You may consider this a lot of effort to pay tithing but considering the savings in capital gains taxes I consider it well worth my time.

As for the WFC printing off statements and handing them out. One year, to my surprise, I found that the statement handed to me with my name hand written on the envelope wasn't my statement but another member's. Of course, I quickly pointed out the error to the WFC. He, of course, apologized and quickly took all the statements he was handing out back to the clerk's office. I assume he had to open all the statements to correct the error(s). Of course, I wondered who may have seen my statement with my tithing donation of $0.

Yes, I also ask the question why tithing is collected down on the ward level by volunteers, some of which are not accountants or really have any training in accounting, and not at the church HQ level by professionals that make a living doing these things right.

Maybe the SP uses this information when he ponders things out in his mind before going to the Lord on making callings at the stake level. Consider that yet another benefit of paying tithing directly to the church.

[Pheidippides]

I have been paying my tithing directly to the church office since the 90's. Here is what I personally do... The church has accounts with about every major brokerage including the small one that I use. I have my broker figure out which of the stocks in my portfolio have done the best in the way of long term capital gains and draft a short letter to my broker stating to "transfer X number of share ABC stock to the church's account as tithing". About two weeks later I will get a statement from the church office stating that they have received X number of shares of ABC stock" as a gift in kind applied to tithing. Since I don't sell the stock I don't have to report and pay the capital gains on taxes. Given capital gains taxes are going up I am now inclined to also pay fast offerings this same way as well. You may consider this a lot of effort to pay tithing but considering the savings in capital gains taxes I consider it well worth my time.

As for the WFC printing off statements and handing them out. One year, to my surprise, I found that the statement handed to me with my name hand written on the envelope wasn't my statement but another member's. Of course, I quickly pointed out the error to the WFC. He, of course, apologized and quickly took all the statements he was handing out back to the clerk's office. I assume he had to open all the statements to correct the error(s). Of course, I wondered who may have seen my statement with my tithing donation of $0.

Yes, I also ask the question why tithing is collected down on the ward level by volunteers, some of which are not accountants or really have any training in accounting, and not at the church HQ level by professionals that make a living doing these things right.

Maybe the SP uses this information when he ponders things out in his mind before going to the Lord on making callings at the stake level. Consider that yet another benefit of paying tithing directly to the church.

Speaking from experience here, I am a guy who has taken some minor accounting classes, is good with numbers, and can analyze a balance sheet without much trouble, but I'm no accountant. I struggled as a clerk in a few ways on the financial front. When I finally got a WFC, he was an auditor for a major corporation. Night and day difference.

[myboynoah]

A very nice Tithing Settlement yesterday.

It was nice to catch up with the BP. He offered some very neat commentary on Noah and his spiritual growth, things of which we were not aware. That was great. Noah was home sick, so he wasn't needlessly embarrassed by the praise and revelation.

Also, as we finished, the BP encouraged us to use The Church's online donation system to pay our tithing.

The Lord moves in mysterious ways, MRD, mysterious ways indeed.

[Katy Lied]

So beyond, not being burned at the second coming, are there specific non-financial promises made for paying tithing? (I guess there was the promise of rain to the saints in St. George by Pres. Snow) It just seems like we hear about the monetary blessings of paying tithing, but not much else. Is there anything else?

Paying tithing takes away my urge to go buy useless crap like overpriced knick knacks from Brookstone and slutty clothes from Forever 21. Paying tithing reigns in my urge to drop $500 on the trifecta at Santa Anita. Paying tithing allows me to sleep at night, sparing me from watching infomercials on the shake weight and thinking "Good golly this is the neatest thing since sliced bread and I gots to have me some." Paying tithing reminds me periodically of the larger picture, pushing me out of living a paycheck to paycheck lifestyle.

[Moliere]

My bish told me that members should pay tithing to their home ward when possible and not to pay it online. This was after I declared a full tithe on a $0 report. I just smiled and nodded. I've learned to not care, kind of like when I didn't fill out a donation slip to FOS even though I was sitting next to two members of the bishopric.

[TripletDaddy]

Forever 21 sells slutty clothes? Are you thinking of Bebe?

[TripletDaddy]

My bish told me that members should pay tithing to their home ward when possible and not to pay it online. This was after I declared a full tithe on a $0 report. I just smiled and nodded. I've learned to not care, kind of like when I didn't fill out a donation slip to FOS even though I was sitting next to two members of the bishopric.

Do the reports actually say zero? Ours didn't. The report we were given simply listed the fast offering amounts. Tithing wasn't even a line item and there was no zero balance listed. It simply wasn't on the paper.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My bish told me that members should pay tithing to their home ward when possible and not to pay it online. This was after I declared a full tithe on a $0 report. I just smiled and nodded. I've learned to not care, kind of like when I didn't fill out a donation slip to FOS even though I was sitting next to two members of the bishopric.

I did that last year my bishop said "Hmmm... You are either not paying your tithing or you got a big pay cut this year."

[Moliere]

Do the reports actually say zero? Ours didn't. The report we were given simply listed the fast offering amounts. Tithing wasn't even a line item and there was no zero balance listed. It simply wasn't on the paper.

It showed my FO donations but the tithing column was blank. There was an awkward silence and he just mentioned that I must have paid with stock or something. Then we went on to challenge us to become even better people in 2012. It was good meeting. I really like my bishop....most of the time.