I learned in church today

[Northwestcoug]

I figure our middle class ward in Rexburg pulls in over a million dollars a year in tithing and other contributions. It seems like a part of that could go to professionals and take some pressure off the bishop.

It could be a ward's health savings account!

Probably the biggest overhaul that is needed is for members of the ward to step up and fulfill their simple callings. If primary teachers showed up or got their own substitutes, or the RS visited new mothers, or youth leaders showed up for mutual, or rechartering got done by the scout committee (hell, if the scout committee did anything) then the bishop's responsibilities would be signficantly lightened. As DFU famously said (look below in my sig line)....

I'm sure this would help. But again, are all the activities, meetings, and expectations necessary? Back when my daughters still attended young womens, it was ridiculous how many times they came home and said they 'worked on personal progress'. Not that that's necessarily bad, but most often it meant there was little or no planning involved. And you know what? I don't blame those leaders. It's hard planning good activities week after week. Just make it twice a month.

Scouts is essentially mandatory for young men, so an enormous amount of energy goes into maintaining weekly activities, campouts, camps, etc. Make it voluntary, and halve the activities.

Halve (I'm starting to like using this word ) primary time, making it easier to find substitutes, or at least easier for the leadership to fill in vacancies.

The ward does not need to be a social structure that tries to provide for everyone's needs. The leadership doesn't need to continually struggle to balance family, work, and church, and then try not to devote any spare time to the ward. It can and should provide help when needed. But when I was involved in the bishopric the thing that led to the most demoralization was the 'roundtable' ward councils of trying to do everything for the same people, over and over again, whether they wanted help or not. More often than not, energy was wasted on people who were content on remaining inactive. The good people who were in leadership positions were just trying to do what was right. At the risk of going against many well-known scriptures, why not scale back the church's expectations of doing all we can?

[hostile]

The ward does not need to be a social structure that tries to provide for everyone's needs. The leadership doesn't need to continually struggle to balance family, work, and church, and then try not to devote any spare time to the ward. It can and should provide help when needed. But when I was involved in the bishopric the thing that led to the most demoralization was the 'roundtable' ward councils of trying to do everything for the same people, over and over again, whether they wanted help or not. More often than not, energy was wasted on people who were content on remaining inactive. The good people who were in leadership positions were just trying to do what was right.

I don't know how many times I've had a variation of this conversation.

[Goatnapper'96]

It could be a ward's health savings account!



I'm sure this would help. But again, are all the activities, meetings, and expectations necessary? Back when my daughters still attended young womens, it was ridiculous how many times they came home and said they 'worked on personal progress'. Not that that's necessarily bad, but most often it meant there was little or no planning involved. And you know what? I don't blame those leaders. It's hard planning good activities week after week. Just make it twice a month.

Scouts is essentially mandatory for young men, so an enormous amount of energy goes into maintaining weekly activities, campouts, camps, etc. Make it voluntary, and halve the activities.

Halve (I'm starting to like using this word ) primary time, making it easier to find substitutes, or at least easier for the leadership to fill in vacancies.

The ward does not need to be a social structure that tries to provide for everyone's needs. The leadership doesn't need to continually struggle to balance family, work, and church, and then try not to devote any spare time to the ward. It can and should provide help when needed. But when I was involved in the bishopric the thing that led to the most demoralization was the 'roundtable' ward councils of trying to do everything for the same people, over and over again, whether they wanted help or not. More often than not, energy was wasted on people who were content on remaining inactive. The good people who were in leadership positions were just trying to do what was right. At the risk of going against many well-known scriptures, why not scale back the church's expectations of doing all we can?

I think you hit some points here. I just got out of being the EQP. I was rarely overwhelmed. There were some times in the fall that got busy because I had to coordinate the gathering of wood for the po, and one year some family moved here from Bishop VanDelay's ward in late October/early November and getting 8 chord of wood for them came at the wrong time (in the name of full disclosure this clan's records showed up in September when they mentioned to Bishop Art that they were considering moving back to Rockland and he beat his clerk to the system to zap them back to us before they could change their mind as he Pontius Pilate'd himself out of the situation of caring for their uhhhh "needs.") of the year but even then I found the help. But for the most part I wasn't overwhelmed. Now I was older for an EQP, I got called at 36 and released at 40 so with that came the maturity that helps one to differentiate neccesary from unneccesary. But the Church does a great deal of unneccesary work. I also live in a place where the majority of the folks do their callings. Package together a ward where folks are there because they want to be there and deciding that some folks just don't want to go to Church and we will respect that resulted in me wasting little time. If people do their callings most folks who don't go to Church or involve themselves with the LDS Church do it because they just don't want to be there. In wards that properly function folks don't fall through the cracks so the ones not there likely want to be left alone. Leaving them alone frees up more time to focus upon the few strugglers who would like to be more involved.

The fellow who was the Bishop during most of my tenure also got it, so that made it easier for me. One of the nifty programs that came down from on high was this 5 name deal and he bluntly said that in our community there just isn't the people out there to have every auxiliary/quorum to have 5 names. He was blunt that most of the people who don't involve themselves with the Church are that way because they want to be that way not because of a lack of opportunities. In my community I actually think it easier to attend than to not attend. If leadership just learns to differentiate between what needs to happen and what just happens because somewhere somebody in the right position said they thought it would be a good idea, it saves a great deal of time and stress.

[Northwestcoug]

I think you hit some points here. I just got out of being the EQP. I was rarely overwhelmed. There were some times in the fall that got busy because I had to coordinate the gathering of wood for the po, and one year some family moved here from Bishop VanDelay's ward in late October/early November and getting 8 chord of wood for them came at the wrong time (in the name of full disclosure this clan's records showed up in September when they mentioned to Bishop Art that they were considering moving back to Rockland and he beat his clerk to the system to zap them back to us before they could change their mind as he Pontius Pilate'd himself out of the situation of caring for their uhhhh "needs.") of the year but even then I found the help. But for the most part I wasn't overwhelmed. Now I was older for an EQP, I got called at 36 and released at 40 so with that came the maturity that helps one to differentiate neccesary from unneccesary. But the Church does a great deal of unneccesary work. I also live in a place where the majority of the folks do their callings. Package together a ward where folks are there because they want to be there and deciding that some folks just don't want to go to Church and we will respect that resulted in me wasting little time. If people do their callings most folks who don't go to Church or involve themselves with the LDS Church do it because they just don't want to be there. In wards that properly function folks don't fall through the cracks so the ones not there likely want to be left alone. Leaving them alone frees up more time to focus upon the few strugglers who would like to be more involved.

The fellow who was the Bishop during most of my tenure also got it, so that made it easier for me. One of the nifty programs that came down from on high was this 5 name deal and he bluntly said that in our community there just isn't the people out there to have every auxiliary/quorum to have 5 names. He was blunt that most of the people who don't involve themselves with the Church are that way because they want to be that way not because of a lack of opportunities. In my community I actually think it easier to attend than to not attend. If leadership just learns to differentiate between what needs to happen and what just happens because somewhere somebody in the right position said they thought it would be a good idea, it saves a great deal of time and stress.

Sounds like a down-to-earth and well-run ward.

I've opened myself to the attack of 'why aren't you helping', since I haven't attended church in awhile. But these last few thoughts of mine are always close to the surface, when I think of when we were last fully participating in church. I'm aware that what I call wasted energy others would call sacred work. But it did lead to a lot of dissatisfaction with my church life.

My family still goes to the yearly ward wood-cutting activities, which is always a success. People love to help when it's really needed. We're not in line with the doctrine, but we still welcome opportunities to help with our previous spiritual community. In fact, we help when we feel help is needed. IMHO, help is not always needed, which I think goes a long way in explaining what I think needs fixing in church leadership.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

I learned in church yesterday that wood drill bits won't drill through screws (I actually already knew that). The lock broke on one of the family restrooms in the building, trapping a sister inside. After trying to dissassemble the knob/lock, I brought my portable drill from home but didn't get very far. We summoned the on-call Facilities Maintenence guy who was able to drill through the screws no problem and we set the sister free. She was only in there for about four hours. I guess we can be grateful it wasn't a kid who was stuck.

On a related note, I quite enjoy my new calling as assistant building guy.

I doubt her bowels were filled with compassion, or anything, for you.

[HuskyFreeNorthwest]

We could ordain SAHMs/SAHPs as bishops and subsidize childcare for their time away. Another way to divide up the work.

What's a SAHP? Paraplegic? Podiatrist? Penis-haver?

[Mrs. Funk]

What's a SAHP? Paraplegic? Podiatrist? Penis-haver?

Stay at home parent. Although I think you knew that.

[Portland Ute]

You're right. I suppose I envision more of a stipend arrangement when members of the congregation are called.

Boy, if jay thinks ass-kissing happens now...

[CardiacCoug]

Probably the biggest overhaul that is needed is for members of the ward to step up and fulfill their simple callings. If primary teachers showed up or got their own substitutes, or the RS visited new mothers, or youth leaders showed up for mutual, or rechartering got done by the scout committee (hell, if the scout committee did anything) then the bishop's responsibilities would be signficantly lightened. As DFU famously said (look below in my sig line)....

Do very many people really just no-show for Primary or other teaching responsibilities in church? Crazy.

Seems like a really shitty thing to do. No matter how ambivalent I am about things, no-showing for a teaching or music assignment without finding a substitute is something I would never do.

[Mrs. Funk]

Do very many people really just no-show for Primary or other teaching responsibilities in church? Crazy.

Seems like a really shitty thing to do. No matter how ambivalent I am about things, no-showing for a teaching or music assignment without finding a substitute is something I would never do.

When I was in the primary presidency, we had one couple that regularly just didn't show up to teach their class and never found a substitute.

I think sometimes it's a problem of the cultural pressure to accept callings. It's far better to say no to a calling than to fail to fulfill it and leave everyone scrambling.

[Non Sequitur]

When I was in the primary presidency, we had one couple that regularly just didn't show up to teach their class and never found a substitute.

I think sometimes it's a problem of the cultural pressure to accept callings. It's far better to say no to a calling than to fail to fulfill it and leave everyone scrambling.

I was called to be a ward mission leader and turned it down. I was honest and told the bishop I was a bad choice and wouldn't be motivated in the calling. He assured me he was inspired to call me, but I still told him no thank you. He was visibly perturbed. I got the impression that he wasn't used to people turning down callings, but I'm positive I would have been a shirker.

[Moliere]

Do very many people really just no-show for Primary or other teaching responsibilities in church? Crazy.

Seems like a really shitty thing to do. No matter how ambivalent I am about things, no-showing for a teaching or music assignment without finding a substitute is something I would never do.

MJ has been in two primary presidencies and both times I've ended up substituting just about every other week with no notice. Usually someone will just not show up and not get a sub. Sometimes they would call her 10 minutes before church and tell her they were out of town and wouldn't be there and say they couldn't find a sub. We'd then find out they never really tried. I've been in wards where the primary had at least one person called as a permanent sub to help out in these situations.

[Donuthole]

MJ has been in two primary presidencies and both times I've ended up substituting just about every other week with no notice. Usually someone will just not show up and not get a sub. Sometimes they would call her 10 minutes before church and tell her they were out of town and wouldn't be there and say they couldn't find a sub. We'd then find out they never really tried. I've been in wards where the primary had at least one person called as a permanent sub to help out in these situations.

This is Mrs. D's exact experience in the primary presidency as well. She can pretty much count on getting at least one if not 2-3 texts each week at 10:55 saying "hey, we won't be there. Sorry we couldn't find a sub". As if they even tried.

[Uncle Ted]

MJ has been in two primary presidencies and both times I've ended up substituting just about every other week with no notice. Usually someone will just not show up and not get a sub. Sometimes they would call her 10 minutes before church and tell her they were out of town and wouldn't be there and say they couldn't find a sub. We'd then find out they never really tried. I've been in wards where the primary had at least one person called as a permanent sub to help out in these situations.

This is Mrs. D's exact experience in the primary presidency as well. She can pretty much count on getting at least one if not 2-3 texts each week at 10:55 saying "hey, we won't be there. Sorry we couldn't find a sub". As if they even tried.

As much as the primary pays these teachers what do you expect? Mrs. D is lucky that these teachers didn't form an union go on strike.

Why didn't the primary presidency just hire some on-call subs?

[Surfah]

This is Mrs. D's exact experience in the primary presidency as well. She can pretty much count on getting at least one if not 2-3 texts each week at 10:55 saying "hey, we won't be there. Sorry we couldn't find a sub". As if they even tried.

Ditto. Gidget was in the primary presidency in our last ward for about 4 years. Which meant that I was a substitute teacher at least twice a month. And I only did it twice a month because I had to teach EQ the other two weeks. My 1st counselor's wife was the Primary President so he was the substitute the two weeks he didn't teach. It annoys me to no end that people can bail like that without any warning. I am finding that out as SS pres right now in my ward. I have two teachers who routinely bail without or little notice. Worse is one of them doesn't even tell me he's going to be out of town and just tells his class to go do service. What? Go do service during the 2nd hour of church? We had a talk about that. But then he started sending his class to the Nursery to help out. And that is the last thing the nursery leaders want. So we had another talk. So now I visit his class to make sure he is there every week. A couple weeks ago he was in sacrament meeting so I didn't drop by his class but I noticed some of his kids roaming the halls so I rounded them up and took them back to class to discover that he had never showed up. His son is a member of the class so I asked him where his dad was at and he just shrugged so I started teaching the class. 15 minutes later he comes in like sacrament just ended. He kills me. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to replace him with. I really wish some people would just say no to callings.