I learned in church today

[ERCougar]

Do you have a link on that, Niku? Peggy says that the ETB manual will contain nothing of ETB's political hobbyhorsing.

I wouldn't put it past Correlation to draw upon the 14 Fundamentals talk in some way, though. That kind of sentiment has remained much more influential than the old McCarthy-era firebreathing.

I need to review my 14 fundamentals, but as I recall, the focus isn't really political. I could see a lesson on them. Time to separate out the chaff.

[Pheidippides]

Do you have a link on that, Niku? Peggy says that the ETB manual will contain nothing of ETB's political hobbyhorsing.

I wouldn't put it past Correlation to draw upon the 14 Fundamentals talk in some way, though. That kind of sentiment has remained much more influential than the old McCarthy-era firebreathing.

Yes. I will dig it up but the manual is already on the website.

There's no way that his political stuff makes the manual, which makes me wonder if they will have anything pre 1980. I don't think he spoke about anything else!

Edit: here is the link. All 14 are either explicitly stated or closely paraphrased:

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings...ophet?lang=eng

[Mormon Red Death]

Eleventh: The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.

The learned may feel the prophet is only inspired when he agrees with them, otherwise the prophet is just giving his opinion—speaking as a man. The rich may feel they have no need to take counsel of a lowly prophet.

In the Book of Mormon we read:

“O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish.

“But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

“And whoso knocketh, to him will he open; and the wise, and the learned, and they that are rich, who are puffed up because of their learning, and their wisdom, and their riches—yea, they are they whom he despiseth; and save they shall cast things away, and consider themselves fools before God, and come down in the depths of humility, he will not open unto them.” (2 Ne. 9:28–29, 42; italics added.)

Seems to fit everyone on this board

[Harry Tic]

[QUOTE=Pheidippides;1126743

Edit: here is the link. All 14 are either explicitly stated or closely paraphrased:
[/QUOTE]



When a couple of hapless but well intentioned 70s resurrected this pile of :swear: a few years ago I figured it was because they were probably naive and unaware of how complicated the talk's history was (I seem to recall that Elder Costa was one of the speakers and as a foreigner he probably couldn't have been expected to know much about it). But I wouldn't think that Correlation today can avail themselves of that excuse. I mean, does the church really want members to hash out claims like this:

Beware of those who would set up the dead prophets against the living prophets, for the living prophets always take precedence.

That's a defensible, if controversial, position: BY and others have said the same thing. But it's not clear how to reconcile it with the claim that the scriptures are the benchmark against which any man's words are to be measured. Maybe Correlation has decided they want to wake up all those dozing High Priests throughout the church.

[ERCougar]

My favorite was the quote that if we follow the prophet's statements, we'll be proven right in the end, followed immediately by a Harold B Lee statement on how prophetic statements may contradict our political and social views.
Harold B Lee. Do they not see the irony in that?

EDIT: Or where he shows that prophetic knowledge is always more correct than earthly knowledge by pointing out that Joseph Smith taught "about all kinds of things". And that a prophet doesn't need to say "thus saith the Lord" to be speaking as a prophet.
Yeah, this doesn't seem to be the direction JL is seeing at church. I may start going to EQ just for the entertainment value.

[Harry Tic]

Do they not see the irony in that?

"Irony"? For Correlation, that's a way of describing a crisply pressed white shirt.

[Jeff Lebowski]

My favorite was the quote that if we follow the prophet's statements, we'll be proven right in the end, followed immediately by a Harold B Lee statement on how prophetic statements may contradict our political and social views.
Harold B Lee. Do they not see the irony in that?

EDIT: Or where he shows that prophetic knowledge is always more correct than earthly knowledge by pointing out that Joseph Smith taught "about all kinds of things". And that a prophet doesn't need to say "thus saith the Lord" to be speaking as a prophet.
Yeah, this doesn't seem to be the direction JL is seeing at church. I may start going to EQ just for the entertainment value.

This lesson has nothing to do with a literal interpretation of the OT. I stand by my comment.

[Pheidippides]

This lesson has nothing to do with a literal interpretation of the OT. I stand by my comment.

True. It won't be relevant to you until TSM passes.

[ERCougar]

This lesson has nothing to do with a literal interpretation of the OT. I stand by my comment.

I'm speaking more generally, and I'm not really directing it at your comment. I'm just tired of this top-down control, us against the evil world stuff. There's not a future in this battening down the hatches movement (nor is there one in literalism). The church is going to wither away into irrelevance without some major paradigm shift, akin to what happened with correlation (which worked in the era it came in). I just don't see it happening.

[Jeff Lebowski]

When a couple of hapless but well intentioned 70s resurrected this pile of :swear: a few years ago I figured it was because they were probably naive and unaware of how complicated the talk's history was (I seem to recall that Elder Costa was one of the speakers and as a foreigner he probably couldn't have been expected to know much about it). But I wouldn't think that Correlation today can avail themselves of that excuse. I mean, does the church really want members to hash out claims like this:



That's a defensible, if controversial, position: BY and others have said the same thing. But it's not clear how to reconcile it with the claim that the scriptures are the benchmark against which any man's words are to be measured. Maybe Correlation has decided they want to wake up all those dozing High Priests throughout the church.

If I were still attending HPG, I would raise my hand and quote the part about "the prophet will never lead us astray" and then the part about living prophets trump dead prophets and then ask why there would be a conflict in the first place. If they never lead us astray, wouldn't we always have perfect harmony?

Who ever said priesthood meeting has to be boring?

[Pheidippides]

If I were still attending HPG, I would raise my hand and quote the part about "the prophet will never lead us astray" and then the part about living prophets trump dead prophets and then ask why there would be a conflict in the first place. If they never lead us astray, wouldn't we always have perfect harmony?

Who ever said priesthood meeting has to be boring?

You aren't attending HPG anymore? I knew you were sounding more and more like an apostate! Slippery slope, Brother Lebowski.

[Northwestcoug]

If I were still attending HPG, I would raise my hand and quote the part about "the prophet will never lead us astray" and then the part about living prophets trump dead prophets and then ask why there would be a conflict in the first place. If they never lead us astray, wouldn't we always have perfect harmony?

Who ever said priesthood meeting has to be boring?

Mind-Blown.jpg

[Topper]

If I were still attending HPG, I would raise my hand and quote the part about "the prophet will never lead us astray" and then the part about living prophets trump dead prophets and then ask why there would be a conflict in the first place. If they never lead us astray, wouldn't we always have perfect harmony?

Who ever said priesthood meeting has to be boring?

I knew you had it in you. You are not just a peace-loving pacifist.

[pellegrino]

Yes. I will dig it up but the manual is already on the website.

There's no way that his political stuff makes the manual, which makes me wonder if they will have anything pre 1980. I don't think he spoke about anything else!

Edit: here is the link. All 14 are either explicitly stated or closely paraphrased:

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings...ophet?lang=eng

oh shit.

[wuapinmon]

I knew that ETB wasn't a prophet when I heard him praise Cleon Skousen from the pulpit.