LDS Garments: Why I Want Out of This Club

[Moliere]

"Distribution AND sale of garments" not "Distibution OR sale." The distribution is only problematic in conjunction with the sale of garments. Since they don't sell the garments, the distribution doesn't matter.

Right, seems pretty obvious that the handbook was specifically written that way to allow people to make their own.

[marsupial]

I wonder if "the church" (whomever that means) would prefer for me to wear silk screened undergarments of my own choosing that represent my covenants to me or simply ditch the garments like I do most of the time now.

I really would like to renew my temple recommend and would gladly wear garments in the temple, but I'm mostly fed up with the ill-fitting and poorly constructed garments. I'm also fed up with the modesty rhetoric. My shoulders and kneecaps aren't so lust-inducing that the mere sight of them will cause men to turn into raving sex beasts.

Well, it turned MPFunk into one.

[Uncle Ted]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. As long as the garment is in the specifications of what you could buy from the church then why not make your own? There is no special rite or blessing they go through before being shipped out from wherever they are made...at least not to my knowledge.

Reported to have been displayed in women's locker rooms at the temple:

The following is to be regarded as an established and imperative rule. The garments worn by those who receive endowments must be white and of the approved pattern; they must not be altered or mutilated, and are to be worn as intended, down to the wrist and ankles and around the neck. Admission to the temple will be refused to those who do not comply to these requirements."


The Saints should know that the pattern of endowment garments was revealed from Heaven and that the blessings promised in connection with wearing them will not be realized if any unauthorized change is made in their form or in the manner of wearing them.

- Messages of the First Presidency 5:110; President Joseph F. Smith; 28 June 1906.

You see, the specs for the garments come from God, Himself.

Oh wait...

To Presidents of Stakes and of Temples.


Dear Brethren:


For some time past the First Presidency and Council of Twelve have had under consideration the propriety of permitting certain modification in the temple garment, with the following result:


After careful and prayerful consideration it was unanimously decided that the following modifications may be permitted, and a garment of the following style be worn by those Church members who wish to adopt it, namely:
(1) Sleeve to elbow.
(2) Leg just below knee.
(3) Buttons instead of strings.
(4) Collar eliminated.
(5) Crotch closed.


It may be observed that no fixed pattern of Temple garment has ever been given, and that the present style of garment differs very materially from that in use in the early history of the Church, at which time a garment without collar and with buttons was frequently used.


It is the mind of the First Presidency and the Council of Twelve that this modified garment may be used by those who desire to adopt it, without violating any covenant they make in the House of the Lord, and with a clear conscience, so long as they keep the covenants which they have made and remember that the garment is the emblem of the Holy Priesthood designed by the Lord as a covering for the body, and that it should be carefully preserved from mutilation and unnecessary exposure, and be properly marked.


It should be clearly understood that this modified garment does not supercede the approved garment now in use, that either of these patterns may be worn, as Church members prefer, without being considered unorthodox, and those using either will not be out of harmony with the order of the Church.


In order that there may be uniformity in temple work, and that the expedition in the administration of the ordinances of the House of the Lord may not be impeded, we recommend that people doing temple work, whether it be ordinance work for the dead or first endowments for the living, wear the approved garment now in use. If persons appear at the temple with the modified style, however, they should not be refused admittance, provided they come properly recommended. Bishops, in giving recommends to the temple should call attention to this recommendation.


Will you advise the Bishops of your Stake of these changes, being careful to give the matter no unnecessary publicity.


This letter is not to pass from your hands, nor are copies to be furnished to any other person.


Your Brethren in the Gospel,
Heber J. Grant
Charles W. Penrose
A. W. Ivins
First Presidency.

-Heber J. Grant Letter Books; pp. 436, 437; 14 June 1923.

And...

Priesthood leaders should refrain from giving unauthorized instructions and opinions concerning the wearing of the garment.

-The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on Temple and Family History Work, 1990.

And...

[...]
Any sister choosing to make garments for herself or family, using as a pattern a pair of garments bearing the Authorized Pattern label which she may have on hand, is reminded that the garment bearing the Authorized Pattern label is made according to specifications set by The First Presidency. There should be no modification in the design of a garment as approved by The First Presidency.

-First Presidency letter to Stake and Mission Presidents, March 9, 1971.

And there may be good reason to modify the design a bit...

This is a reply to your letter of May 2, 1974, concerning the problem which Sister Helvi Temesevi has in wearing the temple garment due to her physical disability.


For your information we may say that individual saints are free to make such alterations in the garment as may be dictated by unusual physical handicaps or disabilities. Where there is a problem such as the one being experienced by Sister Temesevi, we have taken the position that such modification as may be necessary to accommodate the wearing of the garment to the special physical disability or handicap is permissible.

-First Presidency to President Richard H. Cracroft, May 7, 1974.

[Mrs. Funk]

Nice try at subterfuge, feminist apostate. We all know you'll really be sacrificing them in some grove to Asherah.

Shhhhhhhhh! Your turn to bring brownies.

[Mrs. Funk]

Well, it turned MPFunk into one.

Good thing we follow the commandment to only enter marital state for procreation. He hasn't seen my kneecaps in years.

[Jarid in Cedar]

Can you teach me how to think correctly?

No need when the thinking has already been done for you.

[UVACoug]

furthermore, they aren't distributing them, they're receiving an item they didn't manufacture, customizing it and then returning to the original owners. They're selling a service. They're not manufacturing anything. They're no more a distributor of clothing than a tailor who specializes in alterations is, and I don't think a successful argument can be made in that regard.

How do the return them? Do they not use the mail?

[UVACoug]

furthermore, they aren't distributing them, they're receiving an item they didn't manufacture, customizing it and then returning to the original owners. They're selling a service. They're not manufacturing anything. They're no more a distributor of clothing than a tailor who specializes in alterations is, and I don't think a successful argument can be made in that regard.

And at what point do they become garments? Doesn't that happen after the mark is put on? If so, then they are clearly selling garments.


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[UVACoug]

Reported to have been displayed in women's locker rooms at the temple:

Another one of those great internet rumors. What is your reliable source this time? For people that claim to rely only on verifiable facts, you sure do believe just about everything you find on the internet.

[SCcoug]

And at what point do they become garments? Doesn't that happen after the mark is put on? If so, then they are clearly selling garments.


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From Merriam-Webster

garment : an article of clothing

Looks like they were before the marks were put on.

[Pelado]

How do the return them? Do they not use the mail?

The answer is in your question. They return them. They don't distribute them. And they certainly don't sell and distribute them.

[Pelado]

And at what point do they become garments? Doesn't that happen after the mark is put on? If so, then they are clearly selling garments.


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Given the facts of this situation, would you expect that the purveyors of this scheme would be required to withhold and pay sales tax on the "sale" of the garments?

Why or why not?

[scottie]

This board is like the modern day version of the School of the Prophets.

That was good, FM.

[wuapinmon]

Obviously! Soon I'll start ordaining women and sacrificing wild boars to the sun god.

Wild boars are dangerous. I suggest a tasty Danish Protest Pig instead, or at least a Guinea Hog.

Of course the Church wants to control garment production. They don't make money off G's; they make money off control of access to their purchase, which costs you less than making them yourself and 10% of your annual increase.

Thinking about why a pattern must be authorized, am I far off?

[pellegrino]

And at what point do they become garments? Doesn't that happen after the mark is put on? If so, then they are clearly selling garments.


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Come on, UVA, you're smarter than this. Give me an argument that holds water. There is no judge in this country that would consider what these people are doing as either the sale or the distribution of garments.