John Milton, Joseph Smith and LOST

[jay santos]

I asked a question in this forum about a month ago about the LDS doctrine of free agency after hearing a LOST blogger write a theory about LOST involving Satan and God and Satan's attempt at suppressing man's free agency forcing them to heaven. I thought that doctrine was unique to LDS. I guess it's not.

In last episode of LOST, there is a Milton reference which has all the LOST geeks perusing John Milton's Paradise Lost for clues to the show.

In Paradise Lost, a famous 17th century book/poem, Milton outlines various doctrines on Satan, God, War in Heaven, Adam and Eve, Creation, Fall of Man, Atonement, etc. All of it coincides pretty well with Mormon Doctrine.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradise_Lost"]Paradise Lost - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Milton_paradise.jpg" class="image"><img alt="Milton paradise.jpg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Milton_paradise.jpg/200px-Milton_paradise.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/b/b8/Milton_paradise.jpg/200px-Milton_paradise.jpg[/ame]

See this New Era article from 1976 for a summary of the correlations to LDS doctrine.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.js...004d82620aRCRD

Is it odd that so many LDS believe Joseph Smith is the author of all these doctrines? Why don't we talk about this kind of stuff more?

[Indy Coug]

Do we (or scholars, for that matter) really believe that these theological notions originate with Milton?

[jay santos]

Do we (or scholars, for that matter) really believe that these theological notions originate with Milton?

Good question. I'm totally ignorant on the subject. All I know is that in a pop culture setting, Milton is the source for a theory about Satan suppressing man's free agency while God desires to preserve it. And maybe I shouldn't, but I feel a bit sheepish thinking I'm a somewhat educated person in LDS topics and have never understood the connection between Milton and the "unique" doctrines we have about war in heaven, etc.

[Indy Coug]

Good question. I'm totally ignorant on the subject. All I know is that in a pop culture setting, Milton is the source for a theory about Satan suppressing man's free agency while God desires to preserve it. And maybe I shouldn't, but I feel a bit sheepish thinking I'm a somewhat educated person in LDS topics and have never understood the connection between Milton and the "unique" doctrines we have about war in heaven, etc.

My initial thought is that Milton didn't limit himself to the KJV for his source material.

[beefytee]

Is it odd that so many LDS believe Joseph Smith is the author of all these doctrines? Why don't we talk about this kind of stuff more?

Of course the Mormon line (and mine) is that this didn't come from Joseph Smith but came from God. In the LDS mind, of course there is going to be other evidence of inspiration and truth out there. What more is there to talk about? Joseph Smith getting the idea from Milton?

[jay santos]

Joseph Smith getting the idea from Milton?

How could that not be something to talk about?

[Indy Coug]

How could that not be something to talk about?

I think the better question is what apocryphal documents did Milton have access to.

[beefytee]

How could that not be something to talk about?

If there was something there, the critics would have latched on to it. Maybe they have, I can't see anything in a quick search of the internet.

You obviously aren't going to hear that discussed in Sunday school.

[beefytee]

I think the better question is what apocryphal documents did Milton have access to.

That I can see discussed in Sunday school.

[Indy Coug]

Was Milton a mason?

[jay santos]

Was Milton a mason?

lol, yes part of Swedenborg's secret mason branch.

[SeattleUte]

The epic fictional poem Paradise Lost was most emphatically a huge influence on "Mormon Doctrine" (such as it is), and I have been saying this for a long time:

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27000

The seed of the whole war in heaven scenario, as I understand it, was a brief and ambiguous reference in Revelations. However, the Mormon view of it tracks Paradise Lost completely. (By the way, as I noted on Cougarguard, the mark of Cain doctrine is in Beouwulf.)

Mormonism is a movement and a creed forged by Northern European immagrants including primarily those of scandinavian and UK roots. (When I go to the Nordic Museum here in Seattle it's spooky; all the furnishings, Christian images, food, etc. take me right back to rural Utah.) It should not be surprising that the most influential and admired poetic work in the English language, about God and Satan and pre-existence and all that stuff, would influence Mormon theology. It's not unlike the influence of Greek culture and literary works on Christianity's advent.

[All-American]

I can't believe we've been misspelling "Paradife Loft" this long. How embarrassing!

[Indy Coug]

I can't believe we've been misspelling "Paradife Loft" this long. How embarrassing!

Moft definitely embarraffed.


P.S. How did they used to spell "suck" back in them olden days?

[Portland Ute]

Moft definitely embarraffed.


P.S. How did they used to spell "suck" back in them olden days?