Breaking Bad

[woot]

I'm pulling for Walt. I mean obviously I'm very interested to see how he gets dealt with, since that will ultimately be one of the most-remembered things about the whole show. But during the journey, you bet I'm pulling for him. He's the protagonist; that's pretty much my job. I did the same for Tony Soprano and Vic Mackey and all the various mini-protagonists of The Wire, despite all of them being corrupt.

[ERCougar]

It was in an interview I saw. I wish I could remember the exact context. But I suspect you would nitpick a word difference here or there and call me disingenuous anyway so I won't bother searching too much.

Here are a couple of interesting quotes from Gilligan that seem pertinent to the recent discussion here:

Oh brother. I'm not calling you disingenuous. I'm saying he's being disingenuous if he's claiming to be shocked that people are cheering for Walt, as he keeps giving us reasons to at least not totally abandon him. So I was curious to see what he actually said.

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[ERCougar]

That is more how I remember it too, but he has done tons of interviews so who knows?

ER may be referring to this post by Grace:

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthr...=1#post1003974

Yes, this is it. I'm curious to see this quote.

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[clackamascoug]

Douger and I have the same take. We are Walt. We are pulling for him to get away with it, because Walt is an everyman who has done the unthinkable, and entered into a world he knew nothing about, and made it his own. That, in a nutshell is the American Dream, winning despite the odds and kicking ass and taking names. Deep down everyone wants to be a cowboy and own the world. I would not have taken the same route as Walt, but I can see where he was coming from, and can appreciate his supreme effort and cunning to make it this far. I wish I had the chutzpah Walt has. Forget the morality aspect, what Walt has done is really an accomplishment that should be acknowledged.

Say my name.... say's it all.

[old_gregg]

Douger and I have the same take. We are Walt. We are pulling for him to get away with it, because Walt is an everyman who has done the unthinkable, and entered into a world he knew nothing about, and made it his own. That, in a nutshell is the American Dream, winning despite the odds and kicking ass and taking names. Deep down everyone wants to be a cowboy and own the world. I would not have taken the same route as Walt, but I can see where he was coming from, and can appreciate his supreme effort and cunning to make it this far. I wish I had the chutzpah Walt has. Forget the morality aspect, what Walt has done is really an accomplishment that should be acknowledged.

Say my name.... say's it all.

the hell?

[jay santos]

the hell?

I kind of have the same feelings toward Walt as Clack expressed there.

[falafel]

I pulled for Walt against Tuco, but I was pulling for Gus against Walt. Of course Walt couldn't die (though I thought that would have been a fascinating twist), but I didn't want him to kill Gus. He didn't deserve to win that battle, in my opinion.

That kind of illustrates my point. I think the idea that there is a universal rule that the audience must pull for and identify with the protagonist is bullshit. Sometimes a story can be appealing in spite of its audience's lack of empathy for the protagonist. That is what makes Breaking Bad such an amazing show, in my opinion.

So when I ask whether I'm just unaware of my true subconscious feelings towards Walt, I am not trying to be a smart ass. I am looking for an explanation for how I can despise Walt as much as I do and still consider Breaking Bad one of the five best television series of all time. Am I just deluding myself?

I'm interested in how you explain the bolded part. What was it about Gus that you found redeeming, if you can't find anything in Walt? The chicken man was pure evil without the pregnant wife, disabled son and cancer diagnosis.

As for your subconscious love of Walt (), I think the answer might lie in the relative morality that others have talked about here. Yeah, Walt is a horrible drug dealer, but he's our horrible drug dealer. I really can't think of any reason you'd pull for Gus. Most people like the underdog, and here we're conditioned to pull for Walt as the underdog.

I think another reason we all love the show is one alluded to by Douger and Clack. We're fascinated by his metamorphosis from spineless HS chemistry teacher to challenger for the throne of the ABQ drug lord. When I first watched the show, I couldn't get past the episode where they dissolve the dude in the bath and I had to stop watching for while. It wasn't that it was too gory, it was that it was too real. I could see myself in that situation, dipping a toe in the waters before losing my balance and going all in and it was scary. But now I keep watching because Walt, as smart and clever as he is, has continued to come out on top in a world that is totally foreign to him (and us).

I think we want him to win because we see ourselves in Walt, in over his head. Its easy to sit back and say Walt is disgusting and we would never do that, but since we started the journey in the same position as Walt, we want him to come out on top because we'd want to come out on top if it were us.

[CardiacCoug]

I'm pulling for Walt. I mean obviously I'm very interested to see how he gets dealt with, since that will ultimately be one of the most-remembered things about the whole show. But during the journey, you bet I'm pulling for him. He's the protagonist; that's pretty much my job. I did the same for Tony Soprano and Vic Mackey and all the various mini-protagonists of The Wire, despite all of them being corrupt.

Yep. I'm pulling for Walt. I mean at this point it's coming down to those skinheads versus Walt so that's an easy call now that Hank is apparently neutralized.

[Jeff Lebowski]

You sick bastards!

OK, let's talk about next week. I am calling it right now: Walt kills Jesse. At this point, Jesse is out of control and threatening his family. He is a loose cannon in every sense of the word and Walt has given him multiple chances at this point.

[Flystripper]

You sick bastards!

OK, let's talk about next week. I am calling it right now: Walt kills Jesse. At this point, Jesse is out of control and threatening his family. He is a loose cannon in every sense of the word and Walt has given him multiple chances at this point.

It seems inevitable. SJS made the call about rabid dogs. I see Jesse in a closet or a shed and a tearful Walt pulling the trigger.

[Non Sequitur]

It seems inevitable. SJS made the call about rabid dogs. I see Jesse in a closet or a shed and a tearful Walt pulling the trigger.

Wait a minute, I'm the one that called that.

http://www.cougarstadium.com/showthread.php?12085-Breaking-Bad&p=1008638&highlight=rabid+dog#post1008638

[MarkGrace]

I'm pulling for Walt as well, and it's increased each week. They've played too many sympathetic cards in the first three episodes for me not to. This isn't the "I'm in the empire building business" version of Walt right now, so I'm mostly back in his corner again. That is until he kills Jesse or something, and as I said after week 1 or 2, I'm sure I'm being set up for something along those lines.

[Pheidippides]

You sick bastards!

OK, let's talk about next week. I am calling it right now: Walt kills Jesse. At this point, Jesse is out of control and threatening his family. He is a loose cannon in every sense of the word and Walt has given him multiple chances at this point.

I think you're probably right, but at that point Walt is dead to me. Jesse is the one person in the show I like, for whom I feel pit.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Sucks for all those Jesse fans. Poor kid is the only one left in the business with a soul.

But you know how it goes. American dream and all that.

[UVACoug]

I'm interested in how you explain the bolded part. What was it about Gus that you found redeeming, if you can't find anything in Walt? The chicken man was pure evil without the pregnant wife, disabled son and cancer diagnosis.

As for your subconscious love of Walt (), I think the answer might lie in the relative morality that others have talked about here. Yeah, Walt is a horrible drug dealer, but he's our horrible drug dealer. I really can't think of any reason you'd pull for Gus. Most people like the underdog, and here we're conditioned to pull for Walt as the underdog.

I think another reason we all love the show is one alluded to by Douger and Clack. We're fascinated by his metamorphosis from spineless HS chemistry teacher to challenger for the throne of the ABQ drug lord. When I first watched the show, I couldn't get past the episode where they dissolve the dude in the bath and I had to stop watching for while. It wasn't that it was too gory, it was that it was too real. I could see myself in that situation, dipping a toe in the waters before losing my balance and going all in and it was scary. But now I keep watching because Walt, as smart and clever as he is, has continued to come out on top in a world that is totally foreign to him (and us).

I think we want him to win because we see ourselves in Walt, in over his head. Its easy to sit back and say Walt is disgusting and we would never do that, but since we started the journey in the same position as Walt, we want him to come out on top because we'd want to come out on top if it were us.

It's not about finding Gus redeeming. It is about liking him better. Gus was a true badass with a code. Walt is a belligerent, pathetic wannabe. Walt can never live up to the legend that was Gustavo Fring, in my eyes. My dislike of Walt goes way beyond his questionable morals (though that certainly plays a role). It is more about his ego, his patheticness, his irrational need to be in control of anyone and everyone he can be in control of. Gus was the king of his empire and knew how to handle that role. Gus was respected. Walt is not capable of being respected.