"Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated" - The Rivalry Thread

[Paperback Writer]

Payscale.com lists the annual US college salary report:

http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/bachelors?page=1

and twitter is all abuzz.

BYU #111
Utah #214

(out of ~1000 undergrad programs)

For some odd reason, the main response from Ute fans is "Stanford is higher than BYU".

Rankings are based on mid-career salary. I imagine both schools would probably rank higher (esp BYU) if not for the high rate of women grads leaving the workforce for motherhood.

I wonder if its also that professional salaries are still somewhat depressed in Utah; that was the case when I graduated. My understanding is that it's supply/demand with a large supply of professionals wanting to live in Utah. From a demographics standpoint, LDS are very well educated and many have the desire to remain close to family in Utah. I would guess that most U. of Utah graduates remain in-state along with a good percentage of BYU graduates.

Or maybe there are too many factors to make any good assumptions. Utah St. is #340. I thought maybe that was low compared to BYU and Utah and then saw that it was in a cluster with Iowa, Tulane, Tennessee, and North Carolina (among many others, just chose some schools most others would recognize). Not sure what it all means; other than BYU is a hundred spots above Utah.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I wonder if its also that professional salaries are still somewhat depressed in Utah; that was the case when I graduated. My understanding is that it's supply/demand with a large supply of professionals wanting to live in Utah. From a demographics standpoint, LDS are very well educated and many have the desire to remain close to family in Utah. I would guess that most U. of Utah graduates remain in-state along with a good percentage of BYU graduates.

Or maybe there are too many factors to make any good assumptions. Utah St. is #340. I thought maybe that was low compared to BYU and Utah and then saw that it was in a cluster with Iowa, Tulane, Tennessee, and North Carolina (among many others, just chose some schools most others would recognize). Not sure what it all means; other than BYU is a hundred spots above Utah.

I have always wondered about that. Is it real or imagined? Why would this be unique to Utah? Don't people in every state like to remain in their home state to be by friends/family?

And are professional salaries really depressed, in spite of all the business growth (relative to neighboring states)?

[SeattleUte]

Or maybe there are too many factors to make any good assumptions.

This is your answer. What an idiotic list. I assume they throw out people who go to grad school, because that makes the college somewhat if not wholly irrelevant. And graduate and professional schools is what leads to truly respectable salaries. What about entrepreneurs? Is this just about people who get a BA degree and become working stiffs? Also, even at 100 spots apart the margins are thin. You could make an argument that if you want to treat college as a vocational school or means to a job it doesn't matter that much where you go.

[byu71]

I wonder if its also that professional salaries are still somewhat depressed in Utah; that was the case when I graduated.

My experience too. Of course that was about 100 years ago. Accounting degree BYU, MBA Utah. Offer from Big Eight firms in Utah was $750 a month. Big Eight in L.A. was $1,000 a month and Price Waterhous in San Jose matched that.

[Katy Lied]

I was intrigued by the new UofU Lassonde Studios concept; a bunch of student entrepreneurs sharing living space together in a creative environment designed to test new concepts and ideas. I'd love to live in such an environment. Plus the digs are nice if super expensive. $1500 for a double (your roomie pays half) plus you have to buy the meal plan. They are recruiting major cities all over the country, not sure how many locals will get in.

http://lassonde.utah.edu/studios

[old_gregg]

I was intrigued by the new UofU Lassonde Studios concept; a bunch of student entrepreneurs sharing living space together in a creative environment designed to test new concepts and ideas. I'd love to live in such an environment. Plus the digs are nice if super expensive. $1500 for a double (your roomie pays half) plus you have to buy the meal plan. They are recruiting major cities all over the country, not sure how many locals will get in.

http://lassonde.utah.edu/studios

looks pretty dumb

[creekster]

I have always wondered about that. Is it real or imagined? Why would this be unique to Utah? Don't people in every state like to remain in their home state to be by friends/family?

And are professional salaries really depressed, in spite of all the business growth (relative to neighboring states)?

I dont know if it is still real or not, but it was certainly true in the legal field some 25-30 years ago. I was told in the day that it was a combination of people leaving Utah for professional schools and then wanting to return combined with the out of staters choosing to stay in Utah after attending school there at a very high rate. My guess is that it is not as marked as it used to be with the growth of the Utah economy and the entrance of larger regional and national firms into the Utah market. But I have no idea what it is like presently.

[falafel]

I dont know if it is still real or not, but it was certainly true in the legal field some 25-30 years ago. I was told in the day that it was a combination of people leaving Utah for professional schools and then wanting to return combined with the out of staters choosing to stay in Utah after attending school there at a very high rate. My guess is that it is not as marked as it used to be with the growth of the Utah economy and the entrance of larger regional and national firms into the Utah market. But I have no idea what it is like presently.

I know that as of about 7 years ago, my firm was paying $10,000 less to first years in SLC than it was paying in Vegas and the other markets it is in. Not sure what the current figures are.

I have looked at moving back to Utah a number of times over the last 10 years, but doing so always involved taking a pay cut (on top of paying state income tax, which I don't do now).

[Omaha 680]

This is your answer. What an idiotic list. I assume they throw out people who go to grad school, because that makes the college somewhat if not wholly irrelevant. And graduate and professional schools is what leads to truly respectable salaries. What about entrepreneurs? Is this just about people who get a BA degree and become working stiffs? Also, even at 100 spots apart the margins are thin. You could make an argument that if you want to treat college as a vocational school or means to a job it doesn't matter that much where you go.

If you bothered to look, there was the ability to look at bachelor's degrees only, or all alumni (defined as all students who received bachelor's degrees including those who went on to receive graduate degrees at other institutions). Looking at the more expansive group, Utah improves 10 spots to #204, while BYU improves 9 spots to #102.

I have always wondered about that. Is it real or imagined? Why would this be unique to Utah? Don't people in every state like to remain in their home state to be by friends/family?

And are professional salaries really depressed, in spite of all the business growth (relative to neighboring states)?

Similarly to others that have responded, I saw depressed wages as an entry level engineer. Utah had slightly higher cost of living than Omaha and other midwest cities I investigated, but I could get equal or higher salaries offered in the midwest. I haven't looked at getting a job in Utah in nearly 10 years so obviously it could have changed.

[Paperback Writer]

I have always wondered about that. Is it real or imagined? Why would this be unique to Utah? Don't people in every state like to remain in their home state to be by friends/family?

Not if your state is Nebraska Growing up in Lincoln, my parents and their friends were Utah expatriates. Parents were there for careers and many did relocate to Utah. My Dallas area ward is similar, lots of Utah expatriates and many are not here long term. It is interesting to see where their children end up. It's somewhat mixed with some going back to Texas with their spouse after graduation from BYU while others settle in Utah close to extended family. That's been a factor when my kids choose a college. If they want to stay in Texas then they seriously consider A&M and UT. If they want out of the Lone Star State, then graduating from BYU with its national recruiting is a great opportunity to do so.

And are professional salaries really depressed, in spite of all the business growth (relative to neighboring states)?

I'm not sure if professional salaries in Utah are still depressed. Early in my IT career, Dallas was paying much better than Utah. Later high housing costs compared to Dallas kept me anchored. Once my spouse's small family moved to the Dallas area, my chance for moving back to the mountains of Utah was gone.

My experience too. Of course that was about 100 years ago. Accounting degree BYU, MBA Utah. Offer from Big Eight firms in Utah was $750 a month. Big Eight in L.A. was $1,000 a month and Price Waterhous in San Jose matched that.

That's similar to my point of reference when I graduated. Was MACC and interviewing with both national accounting firms and IT companies. Comparing my accounting offers and those of others in my study groups, SLC was lower than comparable markets of Dallas, Denver, and Phoenix. California offices offered higher because of cost of living. Back when I graduated, salaries in IT were not very high in Utah. But that was back in the days of Novell and WordPerfect.

[Jeff Lebowski]

I know that as of about 7 years ago, my firm was paying $10,000 less to first years in SLC than it was paying in Vegas and the other markets it is in. Not sure what the current figures are.

I have looked at moving back to Utah a number of times over the last 10 years, but doing so always involved taking a pay cut (on top of paying state income tax, which I don't do now).

According to this website:

http://www.rasmussen.edu/career-center/career-research-hub/salary-by-state/#occupation=Lawyers

Lawyer salaries are about $4K less in Utah vs Nevada when adjusted for COL. And both states are above average. In terms of all occupations, the two states are pretty even. If you play around with technical and professional degrees, Utah seems to compare well with neighboring states in the Rocky Mountain region.

[Jeff Lebowski]

If you bothered to look, there was the ability to look at bachelor's degrees only, or all alumni (defined as all students who received bachelor's degrees including those who went on to receive graduate degrees at other institutions). Looking at the more expansive group, Utah improves 10 spots to #204, while BYU improves 9 spots to #102.


Similarly to others that have responded, I saw depressed wages as an entry level engineer. Utah had slightly higher cost of living than Omaha and other midwest cities I investigated, but I could get equal or higher salaries offered in the midwest. I haven't looked at getting a job in Utah in nearly 10 years so obviously it could have changed.

Not if your state is Nebraska Growing up in Lincoln, my parents and their friends were Utah expatriates. Parents were there for careers and many did relocate to Utah. My Dallas area ward is similar, lots of Utah expatriates and many are not here long term. It is interesting to see where their children end up. It's somewhat mixed with some going back to Texas with their spouse after graduation from BYU while others settle in Utah close to extended family. That's been a factor when my kids choose a college. If they want to stay in Texas then they seriously consider A&M and UT. If they want out of the Lone Star State, then graduating from BYU with its national recruiting is a great opportunity to do so.


I'm not sure if professional salaries in Utah are still depressed. Early in my IT career, Dallas was paying much better than Utah. Later high housing costs compared to Dallas kept me anchored. Once my spouse's small family moved to the Dallas area, my chance for moving back to the mountains of Utah was gone.

That's similar to my point of reference when I graduated. Was MACC and interviewing with both national accounting firms and IT companies. Comparing my accounting offers and those of others in my study groups, SLC was lower than comparable markets of Dallas, Denver, and Phoenix. California offices offered higher because of cost of living. Back when I graduated, salaries in IT were not very high in Utah. But that was back in the days of Novell and WordPerfect.

Come on, people. These are anecdotes!

[falafel]

According to this website:

http://www.rasmussen.edu/career-center/career-research-hub/salary-by-state/#occupation=Lawyers

Lawyer salaries are about $4K less in Utah vs Nevada when adjusted for COL. And both states are above average. In terms of all occupations, the two states are pretty even. If you play around with technical and professional degrees, Utah seems to compare well with neighboring states in the Rocky Mountain region.

What is Utah income tax? Around 7%? For an average lawyer job paying $100k a year, you would take a about a $11k effective pay cut moving from Nevada to Utah.

[Applejack]

I thought this thread was about the football/basketball/Women's VB games between BYU and The University of Utah. Stop posting about engineer salaries in Dallas. No one cares!

[old_gregg]

I thought this thread was about the football/basketball/Women's VB games between BYU and The University of Utah. Stop posting about engineer salaries in Dallas. No one cares!

besides, everyone knows the bellwether of a school's quality is its nursing program