Recruiting 2014

[Goatnapper'96]

Kid dying for a BYU offer to canceling trip.

Am I the only one who thinks he wasn't dying for that offer nearly as bad as many are claiming? Bronco and his staff eff'd this up to some extent I think, but I believe even if they did it right he would still be going to Stanford. This just plays so much into the moronic BS about Bronco demanding they recruit us and yadda yadda yadda.

How I view the eff up is they had limited scholarships and the first focus was Nacua, then when he waivered they went with Takitaki. Then when it began to appear that he might be a academic casualty they went after this guy. It is looking probable they end up with nothing and then find some unrecruited poly ala Kafu or the kid from Westlake they picked up last June to fill the slot. However, I am skeptical this kid wanted BYU as bad as those angry at Mendenhall want to believe. It feeds to much into the psyche of thinking all of BYU's problems will be fixed if Bronco can be run off.

[cougjunkie]

Am I the only one who thinks he wasn't dying for that offer nearly as bad as many are claiming? Bronco and his staff eff'd this up to some extent I think, but I believe even if they did it right he would still be going to Stanford. This just plays so much into the moronic BS about Bronco demanding they recruit us and yadda yadda yadda.

How I view the eff up is they had limited scholarships and the first focus was Nacua, then when he waivered they went with Takitaki. Then when it began to appear that he might be a academic casualty they went after this guy. It is looking probable they end up with nothing and then find some unrecruited poly ala Kafu or the kid from Westlake they picked up last June to fill the slot. However, I am skeptical this kid wanted BYU as bad as those angry at Mendenhall want to believe. It feeds to much into the psyche of thinking all of BYU's problems will be fixed if Bronco can be run off.

Exactly what I said in the other thread.

When you are limited on scholarships and you have all three kids rated fairly even. Your best chance is to first land the kid who plays less than a mile from campus, has a brother on the team, and committed to you two years earlier. When that didn't work out you go with the next kid who happened to be Takitaki. When he commits you again think you are good, academic issues pop up and you turn to Leiatau late in the process. The claims are that he was recruiting BYU hard over the summer well Takitaki committed in June, so it is not like BYU had a schollie available that they were holding on to for no reason.

[byu71]

Exactly what I said in the other thread.

When you are limited on scholarships and you have all three kids rated fairly even. Your best chance is to first land the kid who plays less than a mile from campus, has a brother on the team, and committed to you two years earlier. When that didn't work out you go with the next kid who happened to be Takitaki. When he commits you again think you are good, academic issues pop up and you turn to Leiatau late in the process. The claims are that he was recruiting BYU hard over the summer well Takitaki committed in June, so it is not like BYU had a schollie available that they were holding on to for no reason.

Right up front I am not blaming Bronco, especially with the LDS kids. I know with some of the non-active or non-LDS kids the way he comes off can bug them. With other non-active or non-LDS kids his routine may hit home with them and especially their parents. Let's say with his recruiting them it is a wash.

With the LDS kids he is up against better academic institutions, better football programs and better conferences. Basically if getting married and hanging out with those in your own tribe isn't huge to you, the lure to BYU isn't that strong.

No doubt with the current rules at BYU, I think BYU has to land more than their share and more than they have been doing, the top LDS kids. I just don't see how Bronco or anyone short of the Angel Gabriel is going to do that.

So Junkie I ask you this question. Do you think BYU can actually become an elite program and how do you think that happens? Unless there are some structural changes with the University itself, I don't think that will ever happen and I am OK with that.

That being said, even if they never reach the elite level, with our schedules, an occasional appearance in a BCS game isn't out of the realm of possibility.

[kccougar]

Am I the only one who thinks he wasn't dying for that offer nearly as bad as many are claiming? Bronco and his staff eff'd this up to some extent I think, but I believe even if they did it right he would still be going to Stanford. This just plays so much into the moronic BS about Bronco demanding they recruit us and yadda yadda yadda.

How I view the eff up is they had limited scholarships and the first focus was Nacua, then when he waivered they went with Takitaki. Then when it began to appear that he might be a academic casualty they went after this guy. It is looking probable they end up with nothing and then find some unrecruited poly ala Kafu or the kid from Westlake they picked up last June to fill the slot. However, I am skeptical this kid wanted BYU as bad as those angry at Mendenhall want to believe. It feeds to much into the psyche of thinking all of BYU's problems will be fixed if Bronco can be run off.

If by 'effed up' you mean they prioritized him lower than two other guys. And I don't know how you make that determination as a fan.

[Jacob]

So Junkie I ask you this question. Do you think BYU can actually become an elite program and how do you think that happens? Unless there are some structural changes with the University itself, I don't think that will ever happen and I am OK with that.

That being said, even if they never reach the elite level, with our schedules, an occasional appearance in a BCS game isn't out of the realm of possibility.

I know that this wasn't directed at me, but it is interesting to me. May I ask how you define "elite program." I'm sure it will help junkie answer your question as well.


Gladly, a BCS game now and then is FOREVER out of the question

[byu71]

I know that this wasn't directed at me, but it is interesting to me. May I ask how you define "elite program." I'm sure it will help junkie answer your question as well.


Gladly, a BCS game now and then is FOREVER out of the question

Elite would be in my opinion have not necessarily all of these, but most. Track record at some time recently being in TOP10, TOP 15 at times 2 out of last 5 years, played in a BCS game, appear on TV in prime time as featured game, play against nationally recognized teams year in and year out, beat nationally ranked teams.

[cougjunkie]

Right up front I am not blaming Bronco, especially with the LDS kids. I know with some of the non-active or non-LDS kids the way he comes off can bug them. With other non-active or non-LDS kids his routine may hit home with them and especially their parents. Let's say with his recruiting them it is a wash.

With the LDS kids he is up against better academic institutions, better football programs and better conferences. Basically if getting married and hanging out with those in your own tribe isn't huge to you, the lure to BYU isn't that strong.

No doubt with the current rules at BYU, I think BYU has to land more than their share and more than they have been doing, the top LDS kids. I just don't see how Bronco or anyone short of the Angel Gabriel is going to do that.

So Junkie I ask you this question. Do you think BYU can actually become an elite program and how do you think that happens? Unless there are some structural changes with the University itself, I don't think that will ever happen and I am OK with that.

That being said, even if they never reach the elite level, with our schedules, an occasional appearance in a BCS game isn't out of the realm of possibility.

What do you consider elite? Like Alabama? Where they are competing for a national championship year in and year out? No.

Do I think they can be a consistent top 25 team that every so often busts in to the top 10 and flirts with a spot in the four team playoff? Sure.

For BYU it all starts with LDS talent, not LDS recruiting. BYU does not land all of the top LDS kids but they land the majority of them. The ones we do miss on, other than a few I am not sure how many are game changers.

Look at some of the top LDS kids we have lost over the years.

Start with Haloti Ngata he was an absolute beast in college and is an NFL hall of famer. He would have played on teams at BYU that went 5-7, 4-8, and 5-6. Adding him sure they would have been better but they are not 3 or 4 wins better by adding a defensive tackle.

Just off the top of my head I think of guys like Will Tukuafu, Star Lotulelei, Manti Te'o, Sione Fua, Simi Fili, Stephen Paea. THese guys are all great players but they do not play positions where BYU has lacked great players.

Now look at the skill position guys and name the last top flight LDS skill player BYU has lost?

Going back to 2007

Top two LDS QBs were Jason Munns and Cade Cooper, BYU landed both of them they were both 4 star kids
Top LDS RB: Matt Asiata, he was a JC kid and BYU already had Harvey Unga and didn't feel the need to sign a JC running back. Instead they sign JJ Diluigi who was not LDS but a 3 star commit.
TOP LDS WR: Marcus Mathews, 4 star that BYU landed
Top LDS TE: Devin Mahina (4 star) signed with BYU

2008
TOP LDS QB: Jacob Bower as a JC transfer, he was already at BYU once.
Top LDS RB: Jerry Bruner, BYU landed him and he ended up transferring to Washington state and quit football. Top Utah RB that year was Sausan Shakerin from Alta, he was not LDS and never gave BYU a chance. He also retired early due to injuries I believe. (which I predicted based on his upright running style)
Top LDS WR: Jake Murphy again he ended up at BYU initially and transferred after his mission. Hindsight he would have probably done well last year at BYU and we could have used him.
Top LDS TE: Austin Holt, #4 Tight end in the country and he ends up at BYU and has a disappointing career

2009
QB: Jeff Manning, Manning ended up at Utah State but this was the same year Riley Nelson committed to BYU so we didn't need a qb.
RB: Adam Hine- 4 star, signed with BYU.
WR: Brett Thompson- 4 star signed with BYU
TE: Richard Wilson 4 star signed with BYU

2010
QB: Jake Heaps, top qb in the country ( 5star)signed with BYU
RB: AJ MOore (3 star) signed with BYU, also we picked up Josh Quezada in this class
WR: Ross Apo (4 star) signed with BYU
TE: Bryan Sampson (3 star) signed with BYU

2011
QB: Alex Kuresa (2 star) signed with BYU
RB: Harvey Langi (4 star) signed with Utah (for now)
WR: Travis Still (3 star) signed with Utah (I am pretty sure his career is over)
TE: Colby Jorgensen (3 star) signed with BYU

2012
QB: Tanner Mangum (4 star) signed with BYU
RB: Joe Te'o (2 star) BYU didn't offer and now he is playing at California JC, instead BYU signed Jamaal Williams
WR: Dylan Collie (3 star) signed with BYU
TE: Steven Richards (2 star) signed with BYU

2013:
QB: Luke Falk (2 star) signed with Washington state. BYU offered Billy Green over Falk. Also the top kid in Utah was Cooper Bateman a 4 star that signed with Bama but is not LDS.
RB: Aofaga Wily (2 star) committed to Hawaii, BYU didn' toffer
WR: Talon Shumway (3 star) signed with BYU
TE: Harrison Handley (3 star) signed with Utah


The point is for the most part BYU is getting the top LDS talent, D-line and linebacker even if we lose guys they are not taking BYU to an elite level unless they were all in the same class. We are always solid at those positions. The skill position players is where BYU needs to step up in order to compete. The top LDS guys just aren't good enough in most years to compete. If they truly want to be elite they need to find guys like Hoffman, Jamaal Williams, Todd Watkins, etc. Hopefully Kurtz is that guy this year.

[KillerDog]

The problem in our recruiting isn't that we aren't getting most of the good LDS talent at the skill positions, we are very good and have recruited those positions very well for a while now. We are lacking in recruiting in the trenches. Utah, Wisconsin, Notre Dame and UW all beat us on the line of scrimmage. I admit that injuries hurt us this year but our skilled guys are good enough right now and have been for a while. We need more quality and more depth on the O and D lines to make the next jump in level so the injuries won't kill us. We also need better development of those players that we get. We need to have two or three linemen on both sides of the ball who have nasty streaks and we have lacked that.

[The_Douger]

Looking at cougjunkie's list, it seems like we're doing a poor job of developing guys in some instances.

I'd love if Mama comes to BYU, but I'm just surprised we don't have much out there as far as offensive line.

Sometimes I think JonRyheem Peoples has the frame to be a tackle, he's like 6'6 isn't he? Yet, Bronco seems to hoard a lot of these guys on the defense.

[cougjunkie]

Looking at cougjunkie's list, it seems like we're doing a poor job of developing guys in some instances.

I'd love if Mama comes to BYU, but I'm just surprised we don't have much out there as far as offensive line.

Sometimes I think JonRyheem Peoples has the frame to be a tackle, he's like 6'6 isn't he? Yet, Bronco seems to hoard a lot of these guys on the defense.

Either development or they just aren't very good.

One thing about moving guys is that they don't want to or listen. D-line is more glamorous than O-line. Tight End is more glamorous than D-line.

Devin Mahina and Austin Holt were both asked to move several times, as was Richard Wilson and none of them would. Look at Vic So'oto he finally moves from TE to DE and ends up in the NFL.

Braden Brown moves from TE to OT and also ends up in the NFL. Players are stubborn.

[The_Douger]

Either development or they just aren't very good.

One thing about moving guys is that they don't want to or listen. D-line is more glamorous than O-line. Tight End is more glamorous than D-line.

Devin Mahina and Austin Holt were both asked to move several times, as was Richard Wilson and none of them would. Look at Vic So'oto he finally moves from TE to DE and ends up in the NFL.

Braden Brown moves from TE to OT and also ends up in the NFL. Players are stubborn.

Left tackles seem to get a lot of cash in the NFL. Maybe some of these guys just played the star rating system and weren't hard workers or just hit their peak while they were in high school and didn't improve once htey got to BYU.

I get that guys want what they want. I'd just tell them "You have a better shot of making it in the league with your frame and body type than at x position." Some guys still won't move.

Didn't Holt move, but by that time it was pretty much too late? I sure miss having a consistent tight end. If you'd have told me four years ago that none of those guys would be stars and they'd go out with a wimper, I'd have never believed it.

It feels like we might have the offense on track going in to next year for the first season in a while though.

[MartyFunkhouser]

Either development or they just aren't very good.

One thing about moving guys is that they don't want to or listen. D-line is more glamorous than O-line. Tight End is more glamorous than D-line.

Devin Mahina and Austin Holt were both asked to move several times, as was Richard Wilson and none of them would. Look at Vic So'oto he finally moves from TE to DE and ends up in the NFL.

Braden Brown moves from TE to OT and also ends up in the NFL. Players are stubborn.

I'm glad that BYU's coaching staff sucks at convincing players that they need to change positions. Sean Smith didn't want to change positions, he was told he was changing positions.

[SCcoug]

Sometimes I think JonRyheem Peoples has the frame to be a tackle, he's like 6'6 isn't he? Yet, Bronco seems to hoard a lot of these guys on the defense.

FWIW some dude on twitter asked him about it and Peoples favorited the tweet.

@KingRyheem Can't wait to see you on the field. I'm down with JRP (yeah, you know me). Any chance you move to the offensive side?

[cougjunkie]

I'm glad that BYU's coaching staff sucks at convincing players that they need to change positions. Sean Smith didn't want to change positions, he was told he was changing positions.

Sean Smith should thank Utah coaches, So'oto needs to thank the BYU coaches. He was a mediocre tight end at best (cost BYU the UCLA game) however he is now on year 3 in the NFL. Even at the league minimum he is doing alright.

I hate Sean Smith as I watched him get burned one to many times during his final year with the Dolphins after he looked so promising during his first two seasons. In fact he looked so good Miami traded away Vontae Davis, they felt like they had a shutdown corner in Smith.

Davis is a pro-bowler this year and Smith according to Pro Football Outsiders was one of the worst corners in the league his final year in Miami (no idea how he did this year).

Either way he is getting paid, something he wouldn't have done as a WR. With that being said for a former WR he has terrible hands.

[Blueintheface]

Sean Smith should thank Utah coaches, So'oto needs to thank the BYU coaches. He was a mediocre tight end at best (cost BYU the UCLA game) however he is now on year 3 in the NFL. Even at the league minimum he is doing alright.

I hate Sean Smith as I watched him get burned one to many times during his final year with the Dolphins after he looked so promising during his first two seasons. In fact he looked so good Miami traded away Vontae Davis, they felt like they had a shutdown corner in Smith.

Davis is a pro-bowler this year and Smith according to Pro Football Outsiders was one of the worst corners in the league his final year in Miami (no idea how he did this year).

Either way he is getting paid, something he wouldn't have done as a WR. With that being said for a former WR he has terrible hands.

His knee was down and you know it.