If you were Bronco and were offered the Colorado job

[The_Douger]

How about a smattering of jocks and hot chicks mixed in with regular students and the smart kids? BYU used to be that way and the culture was, at least in my experience, much better.

Also the kids that sat home every night and on weekends with their heads buried in textbooks weren't necessarily the smartest.

Yup. They were just the most anal.

[Jeff Lebowski]

How about a smattering of jocks and hot chicks mixed in with regular students and the smart kids? BYU used to be that way and the culture was, at least in my experience, much better.

Exactly. Affirmative action for jocks and hot chicks. Because, you know, life is going to be so tough for them. They need a few breaks.

When the academic standards increased that nice cross section disappeared and the student body got nerdier and the hot girls (ok not all of them) started going to UVU.

No more hot chicks to UVU! Because we all know it is impossible for a woman to be intelligent and hot at the same time.

[Scratch]

Maybe BYU could also institute a lottery to decide who gets to date the token hot chicks. They could even weigh it so the students with the best incoming test scores and grades, and then the best grades at BYU, have better odds in the lottery.

[byu71]

You haven't a clue what you are talking about.

Then enlighten me. Try not to be so thin skinned about this whole thing.

I am just making suggestions from my perspective. I don't feel the need to belittle anyone who feels differently yet.

I have had people tell me that when the FB program is going well, the general fund does better. One of those persons was actually in the fund raising department. So I would appreciate you not telling me I am full of shit when I am only repeating things I have heard from people who should know.

If they are full of crap, then by all means give me the facts. I just am not going to take your word for it because you are an established "intellect".

[Uncle Ted]

I should qualify my lottery statement a bit. Minimum qualifying standards should be established with weight being given to AP classes and extracurricular activities. After that put those that qualify in a hat and draw them out.

In this day and age of technology I would like to see something like a Skype interview for those in the gray area of being accepted. You can tell a lot about a kid talking to them and seeing how they think on their own feet.

In the book, "Outliers" (I believe), the author discussed the fact that students just need to be "smart enough". As long as they can score above a certain level they can successful complete the program just as well as those that get higher scores. I am not sure I like leaving it all to chance, however. Students really need to be balanced to be successful, IMHO.

A large and very successful fruit company in California that I do some work for likes to hire candidates that have graduated with a technical degree but have a minor or something in more of the arts. Before I knew this I have encouraged my kids to play violin (or some other instrument), take ballet, or something of the like. I am thankful that I have given our children the encouragement to pursue the arts in addition to their studies at school. Our only child that didn't do this (our football son) is the only one to not attend BYU so far. I don't say if you are son or daughter is not balanced they won't make into BYU. (I didn't have any real training in the arts, still don't, but I do have degrees from BYU.) I do believe it helps, however.

[Shaka]

'71 I think we've officially struck a nerve.

[byu71]

Exactly. Affirmative action for jocks and hot chicks. Because, you know, life is going to be so tough for them. They need a few breaks.



No more hot chicks to UVU! Because we all know it is impossible for a woman to be intelligent and hot at the same time.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to put to rest something I heard. I heard people have been given callings in Utah County to help students at BYU learn how to socialize with the opposite sex.

Maybe that goes on at other Universities too or maybe another of my associates is full of shit. I look to you for the truth.

[Jacob]

Perhaps you would be kind enough to put to rest something I heard. I heard people have been given callings in Utah County to help students at BYU learn how to socialize with the opposite sex.

Maybe that goes on at other Universities too or maybe another of my associates is full of shit. I look to you for the truth.

Really? Young people in Provo are having a hard time socializing with the opposite sex? I wonder how they are all getting married at a rate so much higher than any other University without socializing.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Then enlighten me. Try not to be so thin skinned about this whole thing.

I am just making suggestions from my perspective. I don't feel the need to belittle anyone who feels differently yet.

I have had people tell me that when the FB program is going well, the general fund does better. One of those persons was actually in the fund raising department. So I would appreciate you not telling me I am full of shit when I am only repeating things I have heard from people who should know.

If they are full of crap, then by all means give me the facts. I just am not going to take your word for it because you are an established "intellect".

OK. First of all, the type of jock who is good enough to be on the football or basketball team and make the team successful already has an avenue to get admitted. Unlike the rest of the studentbody, all they have to do is score an 18 on the ACT (hint: that is low) and they are in. So the type of person you are describing is already welcomed at BYU with open arms.

Second, the alumni who provide the bulk of the donations to BYU over the long term are overwhelmingly from the professional programs (business, law, engineering) and are very smart people.

Perhaps you would be kind enough to put to rest something I heard. I heard people have been given callings in Utah County to help students at BYU learn how to socialize with the opposite sex.

Maybe that goes on at other Universities too or maybe another of my associates is full of shit. I look to you for the truth.

LOL. Your associate is full of shit.

[Goatnapper'96]

I would like to see the lottery system. No problem with ecclesiastical endorsements as the school is funded with tithing.

I think the stuff with the churches "best and brightest", "a cut above", etc. lends itself to class elitism within the culture. I know of some really outstanding and accomplished kids who couldn't get in because of grades. Their grades really weren't that bad, but they didn't get in.

Someone has told me the kids in the entrepreneur program at UVU actually are more open to thinking outside the box.

Maybe someone can explain the purpose of the "grade" standard when while BYU is a great University, it will never be thought of as an elite academic University due to the test of "diversity of thought".

I wouldn't have had a prayer of getting in now and look what a great ambassador I am for the school.

I thought we right wing fiscal conservatives recognized the cultural benefits of meritocracy in all things!

However, if it would make the sports programs better I support it. I agree with Jeff and his crazy belief that the two most obvious indicators of academic capability, namely high school academic performance and standardized test scores, should have priority in dictating which students the BYU should accept, but BYU as an academic institution means as much to me as the boys named Sue from South Dakota State. Seriously, if amped up type a overachieving mormons want to go to a great school they can go to like Utah or West Point or something. As for me and my house we want our initial BCS hymen broken and many more sweet 16 runs!

[Scratch]

Really? Young people in Provo are having a hard time socializing with the opposite sex? I wonder how they are all getting married at a rate so much higher than any other University without socializing.

I know lots of BYU grads who are married but who lack the ability to socialize with either gender.

[Uncle Ted]

Perhaps you would be kind enough to put to rest something I heard. I heard people have been given callings in Utah County to help students at BYU learn how to socialize with the opposite sex.

Maybe that goes on at other Universities too or maybe another of my associates is full of shit. I look to you for the truth.

I have heard this. The calling carries the title of "Student Singles Ward Bishop". My friend was called to be one. He says that his job is mainly to get these students to socialize more with the opposite sex and, when they socialize too much, to take their confession.

[byu71]

OK. First of all, the type of jock who is good enough to be on the football or basketball team and make the team successful already has an avenue to get admitted. Unlike the rest of the studentbody, all they have to do is score an 18 on the ACT (hint: that is low) and they are in. So the type of person you are describing is already welcomed at BYU with open arms.

Second, the alumni who provide the bulk of the donations to BYU over the long term are overwhelmingly from the professional programs (business, law, engineering) and are very smart people.



LOL. Your associate is full of shit.

That is good to know as far as athletes getting admitted. Do you happen to know the real facts behind Star L. not getting in? I don't. Over on CB they were claiming he was too dumb and therefor he went to the U. I imagine he will do OK though without being smart.

As far as who provides the bulk of the donations, I would agree with you. That still doesn't mean that donations aren't higher when the athletic programs are doing well.

Lastly, I am sure you will agree with me that smart isn't always the same as high IQ or
excellent grades.

I will let my friend know he or whoever told him about the "callings" is full of shit.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Lastly, I am sure you will agree with me that smart isn't always the same as high IQ or excellent grades.

Sure. Emotional intelligence, leadership abilities, etc. are all very important and those who are the most successful financially are always well-rounded. But some of those things are impossible to measure in an objective fashion, so the simplest and fairest thing to use for admission to a university is academic performance and standardized test scores. A lottery would be random and unfair.

I would also point out that the idea that one has to be some kind of nerd or social introvert in order to get grades good enough to qualify for admission to BYU is nonsense. I also object to Shaka's implication that smart girls can't be hot. That is sexist and offensive. On behalf of my beautiful, athletic, socially active, and highly intelligent daughter:

[byu71]

'71 I think we've officially struck a nerve.

Yea, but I don't get why that nerve is so sensitive. It isn't like we have said people who get really high grades are worthless human beings.