BYU, do you know the way to San Jose?

[The_Douger]

This is how I felt that last Crowton season, but this year I'm not totally convinced that just letting Doman go is the solution (after all, Bronco hired the guy, Bronco ran off the prior OC who in retrospect wasn't doing so bad, and rumor is that some of the more questionable OC decisions have actually been Bronco mandates) and I am pretty much convinced that Bronco isn't going to get fired. There is no silver lining.

I'm biased on Doman, I played football with him in high school and I like him.

I feel Bronco's kind of forced Riley on him. If that's not the case, then he deserves to go as well.

[byu71]

High academic standards are not the problem, people! The head coach is the problem.

I would agree to this point. The academic standards are not the biggest problem. Although we missed out on a LDS first round draft choice because of them and the HC standards, as interpeted by Bronco led us to miss out on another first round draft choice. Both this year and both LDS I think. We might have missed out on them anyway, but didn't have a shot.

The head coach is the main problem. I think because of how he handles the standards and won't take risks. Do you know for sure that is on is own or by instruction?

[Flystripper]

See what you have done, 71? Another poster is quoting your nutty theories now.

High academic standards are not the problem, people! The head coach is the problem.

Yes the head coach is the problem but I am not sure if it is a fixable problem which is why I am depressed, well that and being an independent.

Sent from my PH44100 using Tapatalk 2

[TripletDaddy]

I agree with those that hate independence because after one loss the next goal is to become bowl eligible to reach a craptastic, predetermined, pre-Christmas bowl game against a craptastic team from your former conference.

But the idea that the admin has stunted the growth and development of this program by way of the honor code, admissions or academics is just dumb. Those things are the same as they have always been for the last 15-20 years. I'll concede the days of sleeping off a hangover on the coach's couch is long gone, but we're a long ways away from those days.

And the idea that we no longer recruit talent good enough to compete because the talent pool no longer exists is absurd. How many colleges have the number of stars that our QBs have? Hell even suck ass Riley was a Parade All-American. Heaps was the #1 guy. Lark and Munns were right there. Lark coming out of HS was sandwiched between Josh Freeman and Sam Bradford and ahead of Christian Ponder. That's three starting NFL QBs. And we have bad ass Tanner Magnum Mangum in the wings. There are college coaches who would have done dirty Tressel like things for that kind of stable. So spare me the talk of talent.

The biggest problem that this team has is developing talent. And it starts with Bronco and the staff he has assembled. He's gone out and hired a bunch of legacy all-stars with zero coaching experience before coming to the Y. He's hired an inept OL coach. He's hired a HS coach to be in charge of Special Teams and the secondary. That to me is the biggest issue with this team. We have nobody with legitimate experience outside of Provo except for Weber and Bronco.

[UtahDan]

Dude, I cannot disagree more with you. The talent pool isn't big enough? That is a lame excuse for the failures of this team.

The talent on this team is arguably the best it has been in a long time. Maybe ever. I'd argue we have legit talent and damn near every position except on the OL and defensive backfield. We have WRs and LBs that would start at most other programs in the country. We have a talented DL. We have a 17 year old true freshman running back who looks to be more talented than CB ever was.

I fully believe that this team was a John Beck or Max Hall senior season away from something special. This team has failed because of poor coaching and personnel management (see Riley Nelson).

I agree with you. Hard to overstate the impact of poor or inexperienced QB play. Just ask the dream team in Philly.

[byu71]

But the idea that the admin has stunted the growth and development of this program by way of the honor code, admissions or academics is just dumb. Those things are the same as they have always been for the last 15-20 years. I'll concede the days of sleeping off a hangover on the coach's couch is long gone, but we're a long ways away from those days.

I guess we would have to come to a conclusion on the debate as to whether BYU was consistently better up to 1996 than after. Something absolutely happened then with he admin. taking a stronger hand in things. If you deny that you still think the world is flat.

Maybe we have been as good as then and therefor the added scrutiny hasn't hurt anything.

I will agree with you on developing talent. If they did that we could still be a top 25 team, beat up on mediocre teams and occasionally beat a good team.

[Omaha 680]

Surfah absolutely nails it.

[Omaha 680]

I don't have a problem with players fighting to be where they want to be. Heck, if the coaches had their way Steve Young would've been playing defense instead of sitting in the 7 spot on the QB depth chart. But he fought and worked his way up to start. Good for him. If Riley wanted to fight to be the QB, good for him. But if he can't perform as the QB, then it is time to play someone else. Let him keep fighting if he wants to, but play someone who can do it.

Right. I said in an earlier post that as frustrated as I get with Riley's play, the only reason he is out there playing QB is due to the coaches' mismanagement, so this is 100% on the coaches. They should have put a stop to this circus two years ago.

[UtahDan]

Because we want to be the Harvard of the west. Unfortunately our football team could also end up being the Harvard of the west.

The Stanford argument is useless. They have a much larger recruiting pool than BYU. It didn't used to be that way but it is now.

Are there very many LDS kids who don't qualify academically at BYU but go on to have successful careers at BCS conference schools? Seems like most of the top notch LDS players at other schools I hear about were offered by BYU.

[Art Vandelay]

Surfah absolutely nails it.

Yeah, but it was a long time ago, he repented of it, and plus he was Homecoming king.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, Surfah is 100% correct

[Jeff Lebowski]

I agree with those that hate independence because after one loss the next goal is to become bowl eligible to reach a craptastic, predetermined, pre-Christmas bowl game against a craptastic team from your former conference.

But the idea that the admin has stunted the growth and development of this program by way of the honor code, admissions or academics is just dumb. Those things are the same as they have always been for the last 15-20 years. I'll concede the days of sleeping off a hangover on the coach's couch is long gone, but we're a long ways away from those days.

And the idea that we no longer recruit talent good enough to compete because the talent pool no longer exists is absurd. How many colleges have the number of stars that our QBs have? Hell even suck ass Riley was a Parade All-American. Heaps was the #1 guy. Lark and Munns were right there. Lark coming out of HS was sandwiched between Josh Freeman and Sam Bradford and ahead of Christian Ponder. That's three starting NFL QBs. And we have bad ass Tanner Magnum Mangum in the wings. There are college coaches who would have done dirty Tressel like things for that kind of stable. So spare me the talk of talent.

The biggest problem that this team has is developing talent. And it starts with Bronco and the staff he has assembled. He's gone out and hired a bunch of legacy all-stars with zero coaching experience before coming to the Y. He's hired an inept OL coach. He's hired a HS coach to be in charge of Special Teams and the secondary. That to me is the biggest issue with this team. We have nobody with legitimate experience outside of Provo except for Weber and Bronco.

Nailed it.

[Surfah]

I guess we would have to come to a conclusion on the debate as to whether BYU was consistently better up to 1996 than after. Something absolutely happened then with he admin. taking a stronger hand in things. If you deny that you still think the world is flat.

Maybe we have been as good as then and therefor the added scrutiny hasn't hurt anything.

I will agree with you on developing talent. If they did that we could still be a top 25 team, beat up on mediocre teams and occasionally beat a good team.

You want to know what happened to BYU football? The rest of college football caught up to BYU. BYU's success pre-1996 has to do with scheme. Lavell turned college football on its head with the passing game. While we never had the most talent, we had a passing game that few could duplicate. That is until the rest of America started slinging the ball like BYU did.

And back to talent, BYU is never going to be the most talented team. They're never going to compete with the Oregons, Bamas and USCs as far as talent goes. But they're talented enough to make a run every few years like Utah and Boise State has. This year should have been our run. But Bronco and company bungled that. And that is why I am furious as a fan.

[Cougarmandias]

I'm biased on Doman, I played football with him in high school and I like him.

I feel Bronco's kind of forced Riley on him. If that's not the case, then he deserves to go as well.

I had extreme doubts about the Doman hiring ab initio and nothing's happened since then to change my mind. But really I'm agreeing with you, I'm saying that short of a major rethink of what our program is about that probably starts with firing Bronco, the cancer is going to continue, and I don't see that happening this year.

[Cougarmandias]

You want to know what happened to BYU football? The rest of college football caught up to BYU. BYU's success pre-1996 has to do with scheme. Lavell turned college football on its head with the passing game. While we never had the most talent, we had a passing game that few could duplicate. That is until the rest of America started slinging the ball like BYU did.

And back to talent, BYU is never going to be the most talented team. They're never going to compete with the Oregons, Bamas and USCs as far as talent goes. But they're talented enough to make a run every few years like Utah and Boise State has. This year should have been our run. But Bronco and company bungled that. And that is why I am furious as a fan.

Amen and amen.

Look at K-State. They've fallen just short of the NC game with a collection of lightly recruited players and no obvious talent pipe line. Because of that, they won't be good every year, and they'll be vulnerable to laying an egg like they did this weekend, but there is no reason BYU couldn't be doing what they're doing. We aren't. We aren't because our administration and our headcoach thinks that our football team is a morality play, and has forgotten that far and away the key ingredient to that morality play is winning.

[UtahDan]

Nailed it.

You know if you would dial your anti-Mormon act down a little he would probably post here more. Just a thought.