BYU, do you know the way to San Jose?

[TripletDaddy]

At least Shaka is finally admitting that Riley Nelson isn't a quality athlete.

[byu71]

No I won't.

Shaka also said that the admin is the problem, not Bronco. That is crazy crazy talk. Look what you are doing to the poor guy.

LOL You obviously are not a student of my work. I haven't said the administration is a problem and have always supported their right to run BYU as they choose.

Now if we are going to talk strictly FB and athletics the admin has had a lot to do with the decline. Maybe that is the thing they needed to do because they wanted the HC more enforced. I won't say they are wrong for doing it, just it did impact the program.

Lastly, micromanaging usually doesn't work well. Did you think Clayne Jensen and Val Hale were picks a big time University would make for their AD's if they were going to let the AD run the show?

[Shaka]

Dude, I cannot disagree more with you. The talent pool isn't big enough? That is a lame excuse for the failures of this team.

The talent on this team is arguably the best it has been in a long time. Maybe ever. I'd argue we have legit talent and damn near every position except on the OL and defensive backfield. We have WRs and LBs that would start at most other programs in the country. We have a talented DL. We have a 17 year old true freshman running back who looks to be more talented than CB ever was.

I fully believe that this team was a John Beck or Max Hall senior season away from something special. This team has failed because of poor coaching and personnel management (see Riley Nelson).

Receiver you have Hoffman. The rest including Apo are average. I'd like to think Apo could become another Hoffman but he isn't there yet. The rest are mediocre. Friel showed flashes at the beginning of the year and has since played average at best. Sometimes he's downright lazy. Injuries have hurt our depth at TE. Williams is a bright spot but without a line he's not going to reach his potential. Without a line neither will Hill.

Typically BYU has much better depth than we currently do. I think that's going to continue to be a problem. Let's face it, there simply aren't enough football playing Peter Priesthoods with above a 3.0 (I've heard it's higher now) GPA to make BYU a BCS threat.

[Shaka]

At least Shaka is finally admitting that Riley Nelson isn't a quality athlete.

[The_Douger]

Why does the football team have to have such high academic standards?

Obviously you don't want a bunch of dudes who are going to fail out of school, but not everyone is an outstanding student.

[byu71]

Maybe ever. I'd argue we have legit talent and damn near every position except on the OL and defensive backfield.

Uh, add in the QB too and you have a pretty significant part of a team. That is 8 of the 22 starters.

Remember, if you want to step on Bronco, he does the recruiting.

[Shaka]

You must be quite young. He said the glory days and those days ended at least in 1996 if not earlier.

Go back prior to Tuckett being let go or I guessed he resigned and tell me the academic standards weren't easier and the HC wasn't as strictly enforced.

If you do that and are realistic, you will sound like me too.

Exactly. Back then the HC was paid lip service by most students let alone the athletes. Also back in the day BYU accepted minimum qualifying semi-jack mormon and non-LDS football prospects.

[Shaka]

Why does the football team have to have such high academic standards?

Obviously you don't want a bunch of dudes who are going to fail out of school, but not everyone is an outstanding student.

Because we want to be the Harvard of the west. Unfortunately our football team could also end up being the Harvard of the west.

The Stanford argument is useless. They have a much larger recruiting pool than BYU. It didn't used to be that way but it is now.

[The_Douger]

Because we want to be the Harvard of the west. Unfortunately our football team could also end up being the Harvard of the west.

The Stanford argument is useless. They have a much larger recruiting pool than BYU. It didn't used to be that way but it is now.

I think Stanford is what we should model ourselves after. They don't get burner types that run all over the field, but they know their strengths, and they stick to them. Physical team, beats you up, and plays discplined and smart.

If we want to be the Harvard of the West, then it's time to start doing some actual research and try to get rid of some of the censures that exist due to the lack of academic freedom. Then we'd just be another school though, so I doubt that happens.

[byu71]

Typically BYU has much better depth than we currently do. I think that's going to continue to be a problem. Let's face it, there simply aren't enough football playing Peter Priesthoods with above a 3.0 (I've heard it's higher now) GPA to make BYU a BCS threat.

I think the teams that Bronco did very well with had few of Bronco's recruits. Could be wrong, I don't follow recruiting that closely anymore.

[Cougarmandias]

This is where I sit. I am just losing the interest neccesary to put in the investment to go down to the games. If I lived along the WF it might be different but I am losing the belief it is worth it. The program is waning the intensity and excitement it brought out of and to me. I think it is due to many reasons, a mixture of self-inflicted wounds and challenges outside of BYU's control.

Independence is an interest killer, no doubt. But I still could be fully invested if the team and the coaches were. If the Cougars were trying their damnedest to win every single game and break the BCS, I could root hard for them even if they failed. But far from reaching Perfection, they aren't even plausibly reaching for the Quest for Perfection. BYU football has become something other than ruthlessly devoted to winning games.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Why does the football team have to have such high academic standards?

Obviously you don't want a bunch of dudes who are going to fail out of school, but not everyone is an outstanding student.

See what you have done, 71? Another poster is quoting your nutty theories now.

High academic standards are not the problem, people! The head coach is the problem.

[Cougarmandias]

Let me preface this comment by saying I absolutely hate when we lose, but if this loss leads to expediting some of the things that need to happen regarding the coaching staff, then I'm ok with it.

This is how I felt that last Crowton season, but this year I'm not totally convinced that just letting Doman go is the solution (after all, Bronco hired the guy, Bronco ran off the prior OC who in retrospect wasn't doing so bad, and rumor is that some of the more questionable OC decisions have actually been Bronco mandates) and I am pretty much convinced that Bronco isn't going to get fired. There is no silver lining.

[The_Douger]

See what you have done, 71? Another poster is quoting your nutty theories now.

High academic standards are not the problem, people! The head coach is the problem.

I think the head coach is the problem as well.

I also think he is requires too much as far as academics. That's just my opinion though, from talking to a few people and from some things I've read.

[Surfah]

Preach it, Surfah.

I agree with those that hate independence because after one loss the next goal is to become bowl eligible to reach a craptastic, predetermined, pre-Christmas bowl game against a craptastic team from your former conference.

But the idea that the admin has stunted the growth and development of this program by way of the honor code, admissions or academics is just dumb. Those things are the same as they have always been for the last 15-20 years. I'll concede the days of sleeping off a hangover on the coach's couch is long gone, but we're a long ways away from those days.

And the idea that we no longer recruit talent good enough to compete because the talent pool no longer exists is absurd. How many colleges have the number of stars that our QBs have? Hell even suck ass Riley was a Parade All-American. Heaps was the #1 guy. Lark and Munns were right there. Lark coming out of HS was sandwiched between Josh Freeman and Sam Bradford and ahead of Christian Ponder. That's three starting NFL QBs. And we have bad ass Tanner Magnum Mangum in the wings. There are college coaches who would have done dirty Tressel like things for that kind of stable. So spare me the talk of talent.

The biggest problem that this team has is developing talent. And it starts with Bronco and the staff he has assembled. He's gone out and hired a bunch of legacy all-stars with zero coaching experience before coming to the Y. He's hired an inept OL coach. He's hired a HS coach to be in charge of Special Teams and the secondary. That to me is the biggest issue with this team. We have nobody with legitimate experience outside of Provo except for Weber and Bronco.