Reflections on the awfulness of the Pac 12

[All-American]

You lost me here, hermano. Just as you didn't want Utah lumped in the same level as Kal, please don't equate Utahs past decade with SCs. It just isn't even close.

And that's just considering the games USC hasn't subsequently vacated.

[calicoug]

I'm done. Miami over Oregon? Three BCS bowls to one? One NC game appearance to zero?

Florida State over Utah? The former has two 10-win seasons; the latter has four. BCS bowl wins? Zero for FSU, two for Utah. And UNC on the same level as Washington State? Stop it already.

First, check your facts.

Miami has 3 BCS bowl appearances in the past 10 years (2002-2004). 2 of those were title games. They were 2-1 in those games (winning a title) and Oregon has 4, going 2-2 (with no titles). Yes, I put Miami over Oregon.

Second, FSU has 3 BCS appearances too- playing Miami, PSU and Georgia. And overall, FSU is above Utah over the decade. Full stop.

And UNC and WSU both suck. So yes- they are on the same level.

And finally, BCS appearances and wins are relevant, but only a piece of a larger puzzle.

[Top Ute]

First, check your facts.

Miami has 3 BCS bowl appearances in the past 10 years (2002-2004). 2 of those were title games. They were 2-1 in those games (winning a title) and Oregon has 4, going 2-2 (with no titles). Yes, I put Miami over Oregon.

Second, FSU has 3 BCS appearances too- playing Miami, PSU and Georgia. And overall, FSU is above Utah over the decade. Full stop.

And UNC and WSU both suck. So yes- they are on the same level.

And finally, BCS appearances and wins are relevant, but only a piece of a larger puzzle.

Responding to you is like responding to my 5-year-old when he's angry and irrational. It's better to just let it slide.

[Maximus]

First, check your facts.

Miami has 3 BCS bowl appearances in the past 10 years (2002-2004). 2 of those were title games. They were 2-1 in those games (winning a title) and Oregon has 4, going 2-2 (with no titles). Yes, I put Miami over Oregon.

Second, FSU has 3 BCS appearances too- playing Miami, PSU and Georgia. And overall, FSU is above Utah over the decade. Full stop.

And UNC and WSU both suck. So yes- they are on the same level.

And finally, BCS appearances and wins are relevant, but only a piece of a larger puzzle.

It's irrelevant how good miami was in 2002 when you are comparing whether they are better than Oregon right now.

[SeattleUte]

utes, ignore this thread. Calicoug is the biggest troll on cuff. He has admitted he takes positions he doesn't really belive just to upset people.

Based on ehat happened this weekend he might as well have said the same thing about the Big 10. We know whey he's fixated on the Pac 12.

[calicoug]

It's irrelevant how good miami was in 2002 when you are comparing whether they are better than Oregon right now.

I'm not comparing that. Re-read. I said over a 10 year period. Of course Oregon is better than Miami today.

[calicoug]

Responding to you is like responding to my 5-year-old when he's angry and irrational. It's better to just let it slide.

Does your five year old also point out your factual inaccuracies? That must be awkward.

[calicoug]

utes, ignore this thread. Calicoug is the biggest troll on cuff. He has admitted he takes positions he doesn't really belive just to upset people.

Based on ehat happened this weekend he might as well have said the same thing about the Big 10. We know whey he's fixated on the Pac 12.

The Big 10 may be down is year. Too early to say- just as it is too early to say about the PAC 12 this year.

[Top Ute]

You lost me here, hermano. Just as you didn't want Utah lumped in the same level as Kal, please don't equate Utahs past decade with SCs. It just isn't even close.

You're more than welcome to shade the categories how you like, but Utah is easily a top 20 program over the last decade. With five categories and 120 or so teams, Utah easily ranks in the top fifth. It belongs in the great category.

[Portland Ute]

Oregon v. Miami- Miami

[TripletDaddy]

You're more than welcome to shade the categories how you like, but Utah is easily a top 20 program over the last decade. With five categories and 120 or so teams, Utah easily ranks in the top fifth. It belongs in the great category.

Ok. Then I put SC in a completely different and much higher shade than Utah. Thanks.

[BoylenOver]

Ok. Then I put SC in a completely different and much higher shade than Utah. Thanks.

Utah: 15-20
USC: top 5, easily.

I think that's fair.

[TripletDaddy]

Utah: 15-20
USC: top 5, easily.

I think that's fair.

Me too!

[Color Me Badd Fan]

I come back to this thread and I find Top Ute making a far more absurd point than Cali's original point -- which Utah is in the same class as USC.

There were classifications for great and good. Utah does not belong in the great category with USC. Of course it depends on one's definition of great, but I don't think I can put any more than, say, ten programs in the country in the great category and Utah is not close to that.

I think if we bring in the MAC and Sunbelt teams, well of course Kal would be in the good category but typically when judging one BCS conference against another, you're talking about whether its teams are good vis a vis other teams in other BCS conferences.

Also, I think you have to weight what these teams have done in the past 5 years more rather than weight the last 5 years equally with the 5 years before that. For example, how many of the Pac 10's coaches were with these teams 10 years ago? Isn't Mike Riley the longest tenured coach in the Pac 10, Whittingham's second?

Here's how I'd judge the Pac 10 (putting weight on the past 5 years, much, much more than the 5 years before that, also I'm looking at this thing like a bell curve):

Great: USC and Oregon
Good: Utah, Stanford (they'd be great if they still had Harbaugh right?)
Average: Kal, Oregon State, Arizona State, Arizona, UCLA (barely)
Below Average: Washington, Colorado
Poor: WSU

The SEC is the best conference in the country -- period. I've kicked against the pricks long enough on this. How many programs are in the great category? LSU, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, do we leave Auburn out even though they just won a title two years ago? Then we have Georgia in the good category but they're close to great themselves. Missouri's in the good category. Do we leave Tennessee and Mississippi State out of the good category or are they average. Who would you rather play in any given week, Oregon State or Mississippi State right now?

Losing Nebraska and Missouri hurt the Big 12, but picking up TCU was pretty nice. Texas, Oklahoma and, yes, TCU sitting atop the Big 12 compares favorably with the top 3 programs in the Pac 10. Slight edge to the Big 12. Even Baylor's tough right now and K-State seems to be feisty with Snyder back at coach. Okie State is very good right now. Craig James asshole son (who didn't fall far from the tree at all) ruined a good thing at Texas Tech even though the morons in TT's administration wanted Leach out anyway. TT is merely average now. Kansas is in the dumps. From top to bottom, I'm afraid the Big 12 is better than the Pac 10, but I don't think it's a huge margin and some years it's better than the Big 12.

After that, I think the Pac 10 is much better than the ACC and Big East (of course) and it's better than the Big 10. I think it's ridiculous to say the Pac 10 isn't better than the ACC. And, quite simply, the Pac 10 is better than the Big 10.

[DU Ute]

Ok. Then I put SC in a completely different and much higher shade than Utah. Thanks.

USC is in the "So Great They Must Have Been Cheating" category.